# "Of course Trump fucking won! What's everyone so fucking shocked about?" - Jonathan Pie **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 25, 2017, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132 "2017-01-25T08:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/21 "2017-01-25T12:38:55Z")
She lost because she played safe and thought she could _never lose to Donald Trump_. He won because his campaign (I don’t think he was smart enough to do this) realised that Hillary’s “Blue Wall” was breakable; and did it. In the days after the election why Hillary lost was pretty clear to everyone. Since then the meme “she actually won, its the Electoral College which made her lose” has taken over and made people lose sight of this. Her “popular vote lead” is irrelevant. And either way, even if she won the popular vote (she did not get a majority) she saw what were double digit Obama wins in some parts of the erstwhile Blue Wall turn into double digits defeats. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/22 "2017-01-25T12:39:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is that the reason _Republicans_ voted for Trump? They did, you know. Despite. all the handwaving away, the reason Trump won was because Republicans voted for him. Why can’t any of the Republican apologists step up and take responsibility for the actions of their candidate and the people of their own party? I have no idea why you believe those Republicans who voted for Trump now bitterly regret it and hate their new president as much as you. They have good reason to like what they have: Trump was their only route to not being wiped out; and he _only_ won because Hillary was the opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/23 "2017-01-25T13:01:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [In which British newsman Jonathan Pie lays it all out as to why Trump won.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs) Precis for those of us who don’t want to watch a video? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/24 "2017-01-25T13:04:52Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I have no idea why you believe those Republicans who voted for Trump now bitterly regret it and hate their new president as much as you. And I have no idea where you pulled this bullshit from. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/25 "2017-01-25T13:13:46Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > No, I mean, yes, he IS like Steven Colbert back when he was at the Colbert Report. He’s playing a character. Whatever he says is not intended to be taken seriously. > > Those who are wise should understand that. > [@naita](#): > > There were a lot of people who couldn’t grasp that Colbert was playing a character either, but nodded and said to themselves here is a man who can “see things as they really are and speak to them accordingly”. To be fair I think the _only a comedian/greater truth_ conundrum was confusing to people on all sides of the political spectrum, including performers themselves. Jon Stweart was prone to say he was only a comedian when pressed in serious interviews, but I suspect he saw himself as more than just a comedian when it suited him. I believe many viewers did not watch The Daily Show and Colbert only for lol’s. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/26 "2017-01-25T13:37:55Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > You mean the one where a British comedian impersonates a parody of a ranting neocon? That one? The one you thought was a real person spouting real points of view? Watch the video again. He isn’t a conservative, he’s on the left, decrying the left’s inability to put up a decent debate (which is a problem currently in the UK as well). ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/27 "2017-01-25T13:40:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And I have no idea where you pulled this bullshit from. From your statement that Republicans should ‘take responsibility’ for having voted Trump in. As if that was something they should take shame in. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/28 "2017-01-25T13:43:16Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > she saw what were double digit Obama wins in some parts of the erstwhile Blue Wall turn into double digits defeats. I think this is an exaggeration. In what states did she lose by double digits where Obama won by double digits? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/29 "2017-01-25T13:46:44Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m curious about the counterfactual. > > Like most of the voters in my city – and my state, and my country – I of course voted for Hillary Clinton. And, were the world a better place, I would at this very minute be living through the first week of her presidency. And if anyone asked why I voted for her, my go-to response would be “because she was running against Trump.” > > I found rather a lot of her positions loathsome, you see; she struck me as a flawed candidate in rather a lot of ways. But the single best thing I could say in her favor, the one nice knock-down argument that was uppermost in my mind when I cast that ballot, started off with a crisp brisk _“Yeah, But Compared To Trump…”_ > > Would I, in your opinion, thereby be guilty of needing a way to blame a decision I’d feel ‘sort of bad’ about on other people, so it wouldn’t be my responsibility? I voted for Hillary but I kind of knew she was in trouble when she made her “promise” to put a whole lot of coal miners out of work. And she seemed surprised that all the coal miners weren’t excited about getting to compete for new opportunities in the innovative clean energy industry. The Democrats have become the party of the professional class and have left most of the working class behind. Their solution to everything is more education and more smart people innovating new ways for other smart people to make money through entrepreneurship and innovation. Lots of innovation. Forgetting the way the word “labor-saving” is often coupled with the word “innovation”. The blue collar class wants blue collar jobs. They don’t want to go back to school to be retrained to compete in the new economy. Most of them couldn’t care less if their downtown has bike paths and an arts center. They don’t want to drive for a Uber or be a handyman on TaskRabbit. And I think they have a point. Work hard, get a good education and climb your way up the ranks of the best and the brightest is good advice. I give advice like that to my nieces and nephews. But it’s lousy public policy because not everyone can be among the best and brightest. Starting an innovative business when you can’t get other work will pay off for a small number of people but if every unemployed person did it you’re looking at economic disaster. And education as an answer just causes education inflation, where a higher and higher level of education is required for even the most menial work and ultimately the beneficiaries are the for profit schools and banks that make student loans. IMHO, Trump is like the quack of a cancer doctor who convinces the patients he has the miracle cure and Hillary is the hard-working top oncologist who can offer very little except palliative care. I hate the cancer quacks but I understand why the patients choose them and it’s a shame that the desperation level is so high. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/30 "2017-01-25T14:14:03Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Watch the video again. He isn’t a conservative, he’s on the left, decrying the left’s inability to put up a decent debate (which is a problem currently in the UK as well). True. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/31 "2017-01-25T14:26:22Z")
It is correct. He’s also right, the British Conservative PM is less conservative on many issues than HRC. The choice was between a narcissist sociopath and Goldman Sachs. A word to the wise: If you’re American, de facto you live in a oligarchy. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/32 "2017-01-25T15:06:50Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > IMHO, Trump is like the quack of a cancer doctor who convinces the patients he has the miracle cure and Hillary is the hard-working top oncologist who can offer very little except palliative care. I hate the cancer quacks but I understand why the patients choose them and it’s a shame that the desperation level is so high. Excellent analogy, except I’d say that it’s slightly more nuanced than that. When confronted with one side offering palliative care and certain death, and the other offering some sort of woo-based treatment that makes some wild claims, but that _might_ work, the body politic chose the crazy treatment. I don’t really think they have a realistic expectation that things are going to change for the better, but at least the possibility was there, unlike with Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/33 "2017-01-25T15:10:07Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It is correct. He’s also right, the British Conservative PM is less conservative on many issues than HRC. The choice was between a narcissist sociopath and Goldman Sachs. Odd. How did we end up with both? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/34 "2017-01-25T15:25:40Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > From your statement that Republicans should ‘take responsibility’ for having voted Trump in. > > As if that was something they should take shame in. No-it’s as if almost all I hear about is how Democrats are _at fault_ for Trump being elected. If the Republicans were proud of Trump, they would instead be saying why instead of laying blame(something one doesn’t do when they are glad something happened) on some other group. Next time try to respond to what is actually said, instead of what you already have a preset answer to. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/35 "2017-01-25T15:33:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Excellent analogy, except I’d say that it’s slightly more nuanced than that. When confronted with one side offering palliative care and certain death, and the other offering some sort of woo-based treatment that makes some wild claims, but that _might_ work, the body politic chose the crazy treatment. I don’t really think they have a realistic expectation that things are going to change for the better, but at least the possibility was there, unlike with Hillary. Yes, good point. I have seen the cancer situation up close and the patients reject the traditional oncologist because “he’s already written me off” or “she’s not even going to TRY”. So they go for the doctor pushing the clinical trials or even the outright huckster because he’s the only one giving them hope. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/36 "2017-01-25T15:36:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No-it’s as if almost all I hear about is how Democrats are _at fault_ for Trump being elected. If the Republicans were proud of Trump, they would instead be saying why instead of laying blame(something one doesn’t do when they are glad something happened) on some other group. But, again, if I’m asked why I voted _for Hillary Clinton,_ I immediately get all defensive and start my responses with a quick “Because, compared to Donald Trump”. I’m not proud of voting for her, because she seems awful; I’m proud of voting against him, because he seems worse. I can’t be the only one who saw her as the lesser of two evils, and I figure that plenty of folks who voted for Trump saw him as the lesser of two evils – and I figure that a lot of people, upon choosing the lesser of two evils, only ever go on and on about how bad the other choice was. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/37 "2017-01-25T15:52:33Z")
You’re telling me that “Jonathan Pie” is NOT a real person? What’s next, David Pumpkins is just an act on _SNL_? You know, the GOP had to vote Trump as their candidate before anyone could vote for him in the general. Whose fault was that? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/38 "2017-01-25T15:53:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But, again, if I’m asked why I voted _for Hillary Clinton,_ I immediately get all defensive and start my responses with a quick “Because, compared to Donald Trump”. I’m not proud of voting for her, because she seems awful; I’m proud of voting against him, because he seems worse. > > I can’t be the only one who saw her as the lesser of two evils, and I figure that plenty of folks who voted for Trump saw him as the lesser of two evils – and I figure that a lot of people, upon choosing the lesser of two evils, only ever go on and on about how bad the other choice was. I’m proud of my vote for her-I know her background, I know what causes she has fought for through the decades, and(having studied advertising/propaganda for most of my life) I have a pretty good understanding of how much of the campaign against her was pretty damn effective bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/39 "2017-01-25T16:21:23Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But, again, if I’m asked why I voted _for Hillary Clinton,_ I immediately get all defensive and start my responses with a quick “Because, compared to Donald Trump”. I’m not proud of voting for her, beca Can’t help you, mate. I was proud to vote for Hillary Clinton. I’ve examined her background and her record and I saw a lot that I liked. Far more than I could ever see in Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/40 "2017-01-25T16:27:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Verrry good, you’re on the right track. Now ask yourself WHY conservatives nominated and elected Trump. If your answer is that they’re all a bunch of hateful racist, sexist misogynistic would-be Nazis intent on kicking out all the outsiders and foreigners, I refer you again to the clip in the OP. Or we could just look at what’s happened–not a week into the administration–and decide that they’re all a bunch of hateful racist, sexist, misogynistic, anti-science would-be Nazis intent on kicking out all the outsiders and foreigners, while lying about it and trying to forcefully suppress dissent. Which they’re _actually doing_ now, as fast as their pens can produce their hate-filled legislation. As we’ve said over and over: want us to stop calling you “X”? THEN STOP BEING “X.” So far, Trump and the GOP seem hell-bent on proving us “snowflakes” right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132.md?page=3)