# "Of course Trump fucking won! What's everyone so fucking shocked about?" - Jonathan Pie **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 25, 2017, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132 "2017-01-25T08:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/81 "2017-01-25T22:50:50Z")
Sorry guys ( **pulykamell** and **BPC** ), I have to leave for the evening. I’ll try to answer your posts later tonight. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/82 "2017-01-25T23:07:20Z")
Well, to be fair, he’s not a straight left-winger, either. My sense of him (Tom Walker) is that he’s a left wing populist sick of corporate media and their approach to news. I would assume well to the left of typical American politics, but not necessarily working on the American sense of left vs right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/83 "2017-01-25T23:12:28Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, to be fair, he’s not a straight left-winger, either… Hell, none of us are! The “left” has always been a hodge-podge of smart people who take politics maybe a bit too seriously. Which is how we got that way in the first place, got tired of losing arguments with smart people. But often firing our first salvo at our nearest ally. And so it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/84 "2017-01-26T00:10:19Z")
Well, reading this board, it’s evident that liberals will never figure out why they lost. I’ve seen accusations on this board ranging from racism, to Hispanics being sexist, to Americans being stupid, to Russia, to… whatever comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/85 "2017-01-26T00:23:22Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Well, reading this board, it’s evident that liberals will never figure out why they lost. I’ve seen accusations on this board ranging from racism, to Hispanics being sexist, to Americans being stupid, to Russia, to… whatever comes to mind. Seems the only ones who really care are on the other side of the aisle, as if it’s some sort of self-affirmation along the lines of “We won!” But then in the end these forensic forays seldom result in any kind of true knowledge anyway. The fact remains that, contrary to what conservatives would have us think, the war isn’t over nor will it ever be. No one is capitulating, and no one is cooperating. Now _there’s_ a lesson we learned from the last eight years and, coincidentally, from those same people on the other side of the aisle. Except that our objection isn’t the color of the Fearless Leader’s skin, it’s his utter lack of humanity and ability to do anything more than lie with a facility that’s astounding in its frequency. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/86 "2017-01-26T00:26:22Z")
You understand that he is making his point from the left, and talking to his political cohort? The point he is making is made with a left perspective. It doesn’t work to say this from the right, to people of the left. The right owns Donnie and are the ones who put him up for this job, which his getting of, is the problem that is being decried here. He comes from the right and is the logical outgrowth of their behaviors and late period plutocracy. I’m sure your commentator would say that if you weren’t using him for straw points. He’s a professional selling himself and what he considers an original a punditory point. Not that original. We’ve seen it made here. The thing they all have in common is that they are in a righteous frenzy about telling other people that they’re wrong, and they themselves aren’t wrong anymore, they are the source of rightness. Basically it’s a minor fundamentalism occasioned by don the con. The aim is to externalize responsibility in a frenzy of wrath. Good luck doing that from the right. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/87 "2017-01-26T00:27:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Except that our objection isn’t the color of the Fearless Leader’s skin Actually, there \*are \*quite a few fixated on his “orange/Cheeto” complexion. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/88 "2017-01-26T00:58:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Actually, there \*are \*quite a few fixated on his “orange/Cheeto” complexion. That’s a way of showing disrespect. It’s not germane to why we think he’s the worst president in history, unlike the former case. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/89 "2017-01-26T01:01:34Z")
No, no, **Starving Artist** is right: The conservative candidate this cycle did win the majority of votes. Its just that, because of the stupid Electoral College, the bat-guano crazy candidate beat her anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/90 "2017-01-26T01:28:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > recognize that people have right to their own opinions and behave accordingly Of course people have a right to their own opinions. What many conservatives seem to be arguing is that they should have a right to hold their own opinions without anybody else challenging or criticizing them. [QUOTE=Starving Artist] It should be obvious to you that if even my mind can be changed on some of these things, then the approach that can accomplish it is one worth using. [/QUOTE] :dubious: Not necessarily: after all, you’re still the guy who believes that Donald Trump is a genius and that he personally doesn’t mind when people criticize him, along with an immense amount of other “alternative facts”. It is not at all clear to me that changing a mind of the unique caliber of yours is a replicable phenomenon. Still, if you’re really so sincere about the cause of restoring civility to public discourse, I heartily encourage you to promote that approach among your many fellow conservatives who think “insults and name calling” are just fine when directed at liberals. Including the innumerable ones who have called members of the Obama family “monkeys” or “apes” or “trannies” as well as more explicit racial slurs. Conservatives definitely have too much glass in their own house to be throwing stones on the “incivility” issue. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/91 "2017-01-26T01:38:21Z")
And again, the views of conservatives often considered the most, ah, deplorable are the ones that DIRECTLY interfere with the ability of entire demographics to live and be considered worthy of legal protection, sometimes basic humanity. How can you possibly respect or agree to disagree with those? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/92 "2017-01-26T01:49:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Here’s an article that addresses and refutes some of the underlying motivation of trying to control speech and thought. […] > > [Under attack](http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21699909-curbs-free-speech-are-growing-tighter-it-time-speak-out-under-attack) That’s a rather bizarre article, and not very convincing on the point you claim it’s making. It describes attacks on free speech via antidemocratic crackdowns by repressive governments and “censorship by assassination”, interspersed with some vague and citation-free pious tut-tutting about campus speech codes and the like. :dubious: One of these things is not like the others. Once again, I’m struck by the double standard in which conservatives in one breath call on liberals to lay off the “insults and name calling” and in the next breath complain that there’s too much intolerance directed at people saying offensive things. Mind you, as far as official civil liberties go, I’m a free-speech zealot myself as a card-carrying member of the ACLU (an organization that I wish more self-proclaimed free-speech-loving conservatives would support). But that doesn’t mean that I think there’s anything wrong with **criticizing** speech one disapproves of. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/93 "2017-01-26T02:02:18Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/94 "2017-01-26T02:10:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Seems the only ones who really care are on the other side of the aisle, as if it’s some sort of self-affirmation along the lines of “We won!” But then in the end these forensic forays seldom result in any kind of true knowledge anyway. The fact remains that, contrary to what conservatives would have us think, the war isn’t over nor will it ever be. No one is capitulating, and no one is cooperating. Now _there’s_ a lesson we learned from the last eight years and, coincidentally, from those same people on the other side of the aisle. Except that our objection isn’t the color of the Fearless Leader’s skin, it’s his utter lack of humanity and ability to do anything more than lie with a facility that’s astounding in its frequency. Tell me, who was it, upon his inauguration and almost immediately being sworn into office, declared “Elections have consequences and I won!”? For the life of me I can’t understand why y’all give Obama a pass for coming into office unwilling to reach across the isle, but lambaste the other side of the isle for, after more than a year and a half, giving up on trying to work with him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/95 "2017-01-26T04:35:52Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > For the life of me I can’t understand why y’all give Obama a pass for coming into office unwilling to reach across the isle… Because we know that’s not what happened. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/96 "2017-01-26T05:11:32Z")
Well, then, if it never happened, then you _can’t_ give him a pass for that! So, why do you? Afraid he’s got you there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/97 "2017-01-26T10:20:58Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > For the life of me I can’t understand why y’all give Obama a pass for coming into office unwilling to reach across the isle, but lambaste the other side of the isle for, after more than a year and a half, giving up on trying to work with him. #alternativefacts #conservativeshatespellcheck #strandeddessertaisle ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/98 "2017-01-26T11:46:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because we know that’s not what happened. That’s exactly what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/99 "2017-01-26T11:51:24Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > That’s exactly what happened. Then perhaps you can tell me how many conservative amendments were adopted in Obamacare, how many were rejected, and how many republicans voted for Obamacare? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132/100 "2017-01-26T12:44:38Z")
Obama gambled. The Pubbies bet with all the shit they loaded the ACA with, and with the undercurrent of mistrust they were so gleefully stoking, that the ACA wouldn’t last long enough to start generating any benefit for anyone. Obama bet the opposite, that he could hold it together long enough for it to turn around and head into “acceptance” numbers. The Republicans who voted for it were betting it would sink, and they wouldn’t have to deal with it again for another twenty-odd years. It looked like a shrewd move, so they did it. Apparently, they just couldn’t grasp that our “system” was so utterly fucked that even as crippled and mangled as it was, the ACA would be an improvement that would show its worth. But you see, Andy, in this situation, Obama is the fucker, and you is the fuckee… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-course-trump-fucking-won-whats-everyone-so-fucking-shocked-about-jonathan-pie/778132.md?page=6)