# Of Heroes and Survivors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 15, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878 "2002-11-15T14:53:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/141 "2002-11-20T22:35:30Z")
D’oh. Paul Abbot, rather. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/142 "2002-11-20T23:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Suspenderzzz \* > \*\*How come in these courageous disease stories never give any credit to the doctors, btw.? Has anyone ever noticed that? You never hear anything about how the doctors worked their asses off and applied their knowledge and skills to safe the poor sap. It’s always, “oh what a survivor this one is”. As if she’d done it all by herself. Give me a fucking break. \*\* As I said in my last post > [@](#): > > The posession of a unique set of skills does not make one a hero Perhaps you should see one of those heroic doctors about your case of cranial anal inversion. You have one of the worst cases on record. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/143 "2002-11-21T00:23:55Z")
“You must be a Republican, yes?” I fail to see how that’s relevant at all, given that pretty much everyone here, ranging from Republicans to actual Socialists, like Dispassionate and QueerGeekGirl, are tearing you a new asshole. (HELLO you two! :D) ---
**Author:** ![Diff\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Diff\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diff_T)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/144 "2002-11-21T01:32:13Z")
I think this is hilarious. I’m not one bit offended. Suspenderzzz; DANCE, MONKEY… DANCE!! Such a dimwit… -a HILARIOUS and SPECTACULAR dimwit! ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/145 "2002-11-21T02:42:39Z")
QUOTE]I’m posting from work and I don’t have a computer at home. I guess nowadays that fact alone would qualify me as one of those struggling, surviving heroes. [/QUOTE] No, you are not a hero but maybe you need a second job so you can afford a computer at home and qualify as a looser, by your own definition. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Suspenderzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@Suspenderzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suspenderzzz)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/146 "2002-11-21T18:29:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > \*\*QUOTE]I’m posting from work and I don’t have a computer at home. I guess nowadays that fact alone would qualify me as one of those struggling, surviving heroes. No, you are not a hero but maybe you need a second job so you can afford a computer at home and qualify as a looser, by your own definition. 😃 \*\* [/QUOTE] Let me tell you something. If I need to get a _second job_ in order to afford certain luxuries, I can do without them. I don’t believe in people working themselves to death in order to afford luxuries that they will have no time to enjoy anyway, because they are working all the time. The most precious luxury to me is free time to do with as I please, and much of it. To me, that is actually not a luxury, but a necessity for keeping my sanity. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m the type of person who can’t be bothered to run around all the time and never get a moment’s peace and quiet for…money. You can keep the fucking rat race, thank you very much. If that makes me a lazy slacker, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Diff\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@Diff\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diff_T)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/147 "2002-11-21T19:10:23Z")
Speaking of lazy slacker, shouldn’t you get back to work? I’m sure your employer would love to read the hysterical bullshit you’ve been raping about on his or her dime. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/148 "2002-11-21T19:25:01Z")
I’m at a loss as to why this thread is on its way to being four pages long. The OP made a valid point albeit with some bad examples, which IIRC she has since agreed she could have stated better. She has issues with the way some words have evolved and I don’t see how dragging this out will help any. It’s clear that **Suspenderzzz** has made up her mind and nothing anyone does will change it. Just noticed this on preview: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Diff T_ > **Speaking of lazy slacker, shouldn’t you get back to work?** What’s it to you? Nearly all of what I post here is done from my job and there are several others who do the same. I’ve even been flamed recently for something I posted from here. ---
**Author:** ![Suspenderzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@Suspenderzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suspenderzzz)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/149 "2002-11-21T19:33:18Z")
Thank you, Jeff. I, too, can’t understand why this topic has created such a fracas. I have discussed these issues many times, in RL and on discussion boards, and I know in fact quite a few people who feel the same way I do about it. The members of this forum seem extremely polarized. It’s almost like a pack mentality. A few started with the personal attacks on me, and that encouraged others to join in. However, that cannot stop me from standing my ground. I think I have argued my opinion with an open mind, but my posts of the last page or two, where I have been trying to bring the discussion back on topic, have been completely disregarded and met with nothing but irrelevant insults, which I choose to ignore. You’d think I’m some kind of ogre, or something. Jeez. I think some people here actually have valid points, but by insulting and ridiculing me for stating my opinion, they are not likely to get me to admit it. Yes, I feel strongly about all the exaggerated victim stuff, but that’s why I posted it in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/150 "2002-11-21T19:59:50Z")
Maybe there are a lot of heroes and survivors in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Stephi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Stephi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/151 "2002-11-21T20:24:37Z")
Oh my god, my eyes are rolling so far, they’re gonna get stuck to the back of my head. Here, let me translate for you all from Trollese to English. All of this is quoted from Suspenderzzz: > [@](#): > > …my controversial views and rebellion breeds fierce rejection and high-running emotions. Interesting phenomenon, but, of course, as old as the human race itself. Translation: People don’t like me because I’m a bitch. > [@](#): > > and I wish I could stay around, but, you see, I’m posting from work and I don’t have a computer at home. I guess nowadays that fact alone would qualify me as one of those struggling, surviving heroes. (Don’t ever call me that, if you know what’s good for you.) > > Now I tell what a hero _not_ is: A half-literate schlepp who works the day shift emptying bedpans at a nursing home, and the night shift at Walmart to support a retarded kid, is not a hero. She would be a loser. I’m pissed off that I’m a single mom and nobody ever calls me a hero. So I’m going to rail against all the other single moms who are admired and respected. Ha! So there! > [@](#): > > This is what a survivor is _not_: Someone who was molested as a child. Incest survivor is a bullshit term. I am an ignorant fucknugget of the highest degree. I know absolutely nothing about incest, and I don’t care to learn! > [@](#): > > I can’t believe what a firestorm this mundane topic has created, Tee Hee Hee, I’m such a clever little troll! Look at me! Look at me!!! I expect any moment now she’ll yell **"Gotcha ya!"** ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/152 "2002-11-21T21:57:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Suspenderzzz \* > **. You’d think I’m some kind of ogre** Close, but not quite ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/153 "2002-11-22T01:50:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Suspenderzzz \* > \*\*Thank you, Jeff. I, too, can’t understand why this topic has created such a fracas. I have discussed these issues many times, in RL and on discussion boards, and I know in fact quite a few people who feel the same way I do about it. > > The members of this forum seem extremely polarized. It’s almost like a pack mentality. A few started with the personal attacks on me, and that encouraged others to join in. However, that cannot stop me from standing my ground. > > I think I have argued my opinion with an open mind, but my posts of the last page or two, where I have been trying to bring the discussion back on topic, have been completely disregarded and met with nothing but irrelevant insults, which I choose to ignore. You’d think I’m some kind of ogre, or something. Jeez. I think some people here actually have valid points, but by insulting and ridiculing me for stating my opinion, they are not likely to get me to admit it. Yes, I feel strongly about all the exaggerated victim stuff, but that’s why I posted it in the pit. \*\* Jeez, where to start? A number of posters have agreed with you about Hero being overused (myself for one). We did however take issue with your examples of who is and who is not a hero. You have not replied to comments about your choice of examples, instead you have: Maintained that your did not say what in fact you said. For example your OP > [@](#): > > A heart surgeon who takes the lifes of others into his hands every day, under great pressure and with skills that most of us will never aquire, also is a hero. So is a pilot, because he risks his life and the lifes of others as his normal job duty. He has tremendous responsibilities on his shoulders. Yet, with the exception of the firemen, we _never_ call these people heros. When was the last time you heard someone say, “This heart surgeon is really something. Not many could do what he does. He is a true HERO.” But all the time you hear people say things along those lines about the above cited schlepp. It is insincere. They _know_ they heart surgeon doesn’t need an ego booster, plus they are possibly envious of his success. When I called you on this and suggested that a heart surgeon’s skill does not qualify them for hero status you came back with: > [@](#): > > I don’t really think a heart surgeon is a hero, either. You misinterpret me. Misinterpert you how? Your words are clear, first the surgeon is a hero, then he is not. When I replied to you that you were mixing up skills with heroics you did not reply to me, instead you came back with: > [@](#): > > How come in these courageous disease stories never give any credit to the doctors, btw.? Has anyone ever noticed that? You never hear anything about how the doctors worked their asses off and applied their knowledge and skills to safe the poor sap. It’s always, “oh what a survivor this one is”. As if she’d done it all by herself. Give me a fucking break. So now the doctor is a hero again? Look I will be happy to have a discussion with you, if fact I agree with the idea put forth in your OP that hero has become overused and watered down. I (and a whole bunch of other posters) think however that your examples suck canal water. But, if you expect to have such a discussion, and hope to be taken seriously you will have to pick a side of the arguement and **stick to it.** ---
**Author:** ![Suspenderzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@Suspenderzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suspenderzzz)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/154 "2002-11-26T18:08:11Z")
**Rick** , you quote some of the things I said out of context. But let’s see if we can sum this up. Who is and isn’t a hero? I believe that the true heroes are the ones in the original sense of the word, mainly famous fictional and historical figures, and maybe the occasional regular citizen who endangers himself for some end or other (he may also simply be a fool, depending on the situation). When all is said and done, I don’t really believe doctors are heroes by that definition. They are highly skilled professionals who are doing a job that the majority of the population could not do. All I said was, that _if_ we must put working people into the category of “hero” just because they work for a living, we might as well attach the title to those with the most risky, challenging, high-skilled, high-responsibility jobs. It still does not make much sense, but makes more sense than call a guy a hero who empties bed pans for a living. As for the last example you quote, I still think it is mighty peculiar how we carry on and gush and get misty-eyed at “heroic” cancer survivors and bullshit like that. Yes, they are survivors, in the most prosaic, literal, non-mushy sense, because they have recovered from a potentially deadly disease. But why are they heroes? Why are they “brave”? The only reason they come across as courageous is that our culture has drummed into us that we must always think positive, never show any terror, anger, fear or whatnot, and then we will be in a position to controll our own destinity. The self-help industry slimeballs have gotten rich off that bullshit. And I still want to know that if we _must_ gush, why don’t the doctors get any credit at all, as if they had nothing to do with it, as if that patient, through the tyranny of positive thinking alone, had experienced a spontaneous healing. I think we know the answer: The doctors are not in need of a morale booster. They are doctors, after all. They don’t need to be told how special they are. And that is where the great hypocracy lies: No matter how you twist and turn it, no matter how many rationalizations you use, “hero” and the whole family of similar sentiments is _always_ applied to someone WHOM WE IN SOME FORM OR WAY CONSIDER TO BE LESS FORTUNATE THAN OURSELVES. It is patronizing and condescending; I cannot repeat that often enough. We use this special vocabulary on people whom we “admire”, but whom we would not want to trade places with. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/155 "2002-11-26T18:09:38Z")
You’re so heroic and brave for saying that in the face of all of this hostility. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/156 "2002-11-26T22:26:45Z")
Heroism means never having to let a thread die. We get it, triple-zed. We get it. You disagree with how many in our society use the term “hero.” Most of us agree, and have agreed from the beginning of this cockup of a thread. Now, for the love of Kdapt, let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Suspenderzzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@Suspenderzzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suspenderzzz)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/157 "2002-11-27T14:21:59Z")
I was ready to let it go a long time ago, but I felt this guy Rick deserved a response to his detailed post. Now, see what you’ve done? You’ve put this blasted thread at the top again. By gads! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/158 "2002-11-27T14:28:45Z")
**andros** , I think Ms. **Suspenderzzz** _has_ let it go. The real problem here are the lurkers who insist on trying to awaken the horse. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/159 "2002-11-27T14:29:50Z")
See, she even said so while I was typing. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878/160 "2002-11-28T10:49:53Z")
sorry for bumping. suspenderzzz, i’m not going to fight about the hero thing, but i want to let you know something about the term “survivor”. i’m a survivor because i refuse to be labelled as a victim. that’s it. pure and simple. i came through an experience which might not have threatened my life, but it could have destroyed everything that made me who i am. it could have made suicide seem like a good option. it could have killed my spirit. it didn’t. i survived it. i’m still here. i’m still me. and being called a survivor reflects my experiences, far better than being called a victim ever will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-heroes-and-survivors/136878.md?page=7)