Of Heroes and Survivors

The BBQ Pit
21

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the dictionary writers are simply adapting to the way the language is changing by making room for these expanded definitions of the words?

Right now, I have the Webster’s dictionary from 1977 in front of me. It defines “Survive” as: "to remain alive or in existance; to remain alive after the death of…<as in: his son survived him>; to continue to exist or live after…<as in: survived the earthquake>. The noun, “surviver” is simply defined as “one who survives”.
And that’s it. The whole definition as of 1977.

More recent dictionaries will of course include the “Oprah-fied” version of “survive” because the “newer” meaning has become such an integral part of our language.

Not impressed. I am against calling everyday losers survivers and/or heroes. It is a bunch of mushy bullshit, born out of our politically correct “everybody is a winner” era. If seeing this and disliking it makes me an asshole, I will wear the title proudly.

22

:confused:
How’d that extra ISP get in there? Shoulda been “Depending on the situation…”

23

Jeff Olsen. It happened on another board; not this one.d. But I appreciate your concern.

Anyway, I don’t consider myself a troublemaker. I have some very strong opinions on certain things, and I see certain things very clearly where many people don’t bother to open their eyes and look at all. I can’t stand it when people go along with everything and never try to question trends and open their minds. Boards like these are the perfect venue for airing these things.

24

Fair enough. I’ll assume the OED is part of the evil PC conspiracy as well.

Thanks for showing me the Truth.

25

Ya know what? I’m getting awful damn sick of all this “I just thought I’d put this in The Pit 'cause I know people aren’t going to like it” crap. I’m starting to think that these people don’t really want a serious discussion of their statements.

First of all, any issue could possibly upset people. Should we just fold Great Debates into The Pit because it might go that way? No, I don’t think so.

Secondly, if you really wanted people to take you seriously, you could have typed up a decent argument for your point and posted it in the appropriate forum. If people are upset by what you have to say, they still have the opportunity to take you to the pit. If they insult you in the wrong forum, rest assured that the Mods will take them to task for it. Not you for starting a controversial thread. And if the whole thing becomes a shouting match, the thread can be moved.

I’m starting to think that you want a forum where a fight is more likely to break out because it’s easier for you to rail against the insults than it is for you to come up with an argument that requires you to put your brain in gear. And act in a civil manner.

But hey, if you wanna be in a place that encourages others to insult you, I’m happy to oblige.

Fuck you.

26

While I think the OP is mostly full of shit, I do think that the terms “survivor” and “hero” have been misused at times. For instance, no pro athlete (except for maybe Jackie Robinson) is a hero. Cal Ripken played a child’s game for a really long time without missing a day. Who gives a shit? How is that heroic?

We also see the word “survivor” trivialized constantly constantly in the entertainment media. For instance if some has-been celeb tries to make a come back in some new crappy sitcom, you are likely to see a headline in People magazine that says “Dixie Carter- she’s a survivor.” No she fucking isn’t. Fuck you.

Also I hate it when the word “courage” (along with the OP terms) are used to describe people with disabilities.

"…even though Joe Fuckwad lost his leg in a paragliding accident he still “courageously” goes on with his life. He still goes faithfully to his job at Staples every day (WTF is he supposed to do?) The “heroism” of this “survivor” is an “inspiration” to all of us.

I happen to know that this kind of pap makes most people with disabilities writhe in their wheelchairs.

27

Well, of course the OED is part of the conspiracy. The Oprah English Dictionary! It’s there in plain sight!

I’d be cautious about trusting 1977, though. This thread sort of established that 1975 was the last trustworthy dictionary date.

28

These kinds of threads make me give up hope. How do you go through life not understanding these things?

A hero is simply somebody who puts the life and well being of others above his/her own. That’s all.

Your heart surgeon is not a hero no matter how admirable and valued his work his. He is not at risk, nor is he sacrificing. He’s doing the same thing that an auto mechanic does, just on a glorified level.

The person who works two jobs to take of an incapacitated person is a hero. They are a hero because they have chosen to be a “loser” as you put it, in order to benefit another. They are sacrificing their wellbeing for another’s.

Do you find bus drivers heroic? Then why pilots? They’re just doing their job, and if they do their job well, they avoid emergencies and never have the chance to do anything heroic.

It is just risk and/or sacrifice that make an action heroic. You don’t have to make a spectacle of yourself to be a hero. In fact, I think the greatest heroes are those that perform their heroic deeds day after day, while few if any notice.

A survivor is simply somebody who hasn’t been killed yet.

I for example am a shower survivor, a driving survivor, and a lunch survivor, and that’s just today.

If you do it, or it happens to you, and it didn’t kill you, you have survived it, and are therfore a survivor of that thing.

Incest and molestation as survivors is particularly apt, since so many of them do not survive the experience.

29

Diogenes, I will disregard your opening insult because the rest of your post is right up my alley. Yes, courage is also high on my list, and I understand how people in wheelchairs hate to be seen as heroic and courageous and an inspiration, and all that bullshit. I couldn’t have put it any better myself.

My dislike of the current overuse of “heroic”, etc. is actually born out of my own experience. As a single parent by choice, when my son was younger, people would often conveniently disregard the “by choice” part, and tell me all the time how couragous, heroic etc. I was, what a survivor I was, etc. I hated that bullshit. I was enjoying my life, a life of my own choosing. But I could talk til I was blue in the face, and they would just go on about how I was “not accepting a compliment”, etc. Passive-aggressively twisting the reason why I disliked being called these things. Today, I am still a single mom and working for a living, and I still enjoy it. But don’t you dare call me hero. I will slap you silly for it. And not out of some false modesty, but because I find it tremendously, horrendously condescending. (Of course, people don’t do it anymore. My kid is older now, and my job is pretty cushy. But it still pisses me off when I hear other people being condescended to like that.)

30

Hey!!! You complimented me!! You think I’m worthy of respect!!
BURN IN HELL YOU ASSHOLE FUCKER!!!

(christ, quite a chip on your shoulder there, huh?)

31

Oh, boy, you sure told me! How will I ever go on? You’ve crushed my gentle spirit! LOL!

32

Nope, wasn’t my intent.

But I hope I communicated how completely inane I find your attitude to be.

33

Oh, almost forgot: LOLOROOFLES!!! o//n3d!!!

34

Okay, I have to disagree with the OP.

Heroes can be (thanks to the Webster dictionary)
a) a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b) an illustrious warrior
c) a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d)one that shows great courage

So. Your lady with the disabled child? Working two jobs? Plenty of noble qualities there. Sorry.

As for survivors: transitive senses
1 : to remain alive after the death of <he is survived by his wife>
2 : to continue to exist or live after <survived the earthquake>
3 : to continue to function or prosper despite

So. Your incest/childhood sexual abuse survivors clearly fall in category 3. They continue to function, and prosper, despite what happened to them.

Basically, you can take exception to the way people are using the terms, but know that they are doing it correctly, as per the definition of the term itself.

:rolleyes:

Elly

35

Oh, please don’t give up hope Scylla, you’ll survive.

Don’t you think you were a bit condescending when you wrote:
“A half-literate schlepp who works the day shift emptying bedpans at a nursing home, and the night shift at Walmart to support a retarded kid, is not a hero. She would be a loser.”

Would she still be a loser if she had a cushy job, and didn’t have to work two jobs?

Or are all single parents, that are not you , losers?

36

I guess that would make me a survivor. Now if only a hero could restore my hope…

37

They are in danger of losing their lives. That was the point of my post. The experience can and often does lead to the death of the person who experienced it. If the person still manages to live–and, even moreso, manages to flourish–then they are a survivor. You can be an emotional/psychological survivor, too.

Just because someone doesn’t wear a Superman cape doesn’t mean they’re a loser. People who make the best of a bad situation aren’t losers, either. I’ve seen true heroes, and a lot of them go unrecognized. None of them go around posting on message boards trying to denigrate others. They have more important things to do.

38

I am still waiting for someone to convince me what makes an uneducated person who can’t even earn enough in one job, a hero. For all intents and puposes, that would be a loser. People don’t tell their kids to grow up and aspire to that kind of life, do they? It is a position in life that no one finds enviable.

And therein lies the insult. Why would you call someone like that a hero, if you know damn fucking well you would never ever want to be in their shoes?? It is precisely because we find them so non-threatening that we find it easy to give these overblown “compliments”. Those are insults in disguise. A minimum wage worker is not a hero, he/she is a loser who has achieved nothing. And we all know it and want to make them (and ourselves) feel a little better about it. So we attach halos and heroic qualities to them. Admired by all, envied by none. Getouttahere with this bullshit!!

39

Oooh. My God. You and Hiesenberg and Zeno. The light you have all brought to humanity.

Or, to translate, you’re not just an asshole, you’re a pretentious asshole.

Fuck off.

Fenris

40

So, you think that someone who works to support a retarded child achieves nothing? How nice.