# Of Infanticide and Abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695 "2010-01-05T00:07:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/81 "2010-01-06T02:37:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If in some incredibly horrible scenario, I got pregnant and my husband insisted on keeping the brat and suing me for child support, I would not be able to send the money I send back to the Balkans to support my relatives there. That means they starve or possibly some of them become petty criminals or prostitutes. Okay, so let’s say that instead of you getting pregnant, I am better than you at your job and there’s a layoff and they keep me and let you go, which means you don’t have the money to send back to the Balkans to support your relatives there. Can you kill me? ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/82 "2010-01-06T03:22:07Z")
As I do so much love to just jump in and say- My Mother told me once that she had an abortion. My BROTHER. to this day she JOKES about letting the wrong one go. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/83 "2010-01-06T03:56:33Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Okay, so let’s say that instead of you getting pregnant, I am better than you at your job and there’s a layoff and they keep me and let you go, which means you don’t have the money to send back to the Balkans to support your relatives there. > > Can you kill me? Since I wasn’t forced to give birth to you, no. Of course, if it ever become a Mad Max situation and we are fighting fuel on the highway all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blut_Aus_Nord)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/84 "2010-01-06T03:58:49Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > As I do so much love to just jump in and say- My Mother told me once that she had an abortion. My BROTHER. to this day she JOKES about letting the wrong one go. That’s kind of disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/85 "2010-01-06T04:00:36Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > It’s interesting that one few of the places where infaticide is “common” is China, where abortion is more than legal and most of it happens to girls. > The only other places are those where life is always a (literal) crumb away from death. But still, even in refugee camps in Africa you don’t see mass infanticide. Want to bet? I had a couple of cousins who spent time in former Zaire. They said infanticide was more common than rain around the military camps. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/86 "2010-01-06T04:06:11Z")
My Mom is here for me as far as money goes but there is no love. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/87 "2010-01-06T04:10:47Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > My Mom is here for me as far as money goes but there is no love. Is is possible she has difficulty showing her emotions? Providing financial support especially if that person had to work hard to get that money is no small thing. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/88 "2010-01-06T04:16:59Z")
I think it’s interesting that **curlcoat** thinks we owe a debt to people who will never be productive again in their lives but we don’t owe anything to the people who if allowed to live will grow up to a long period of productivity. She has this strange notion that we should invest in death, and smother life. Definitely, the poster-child for what the pro-lifers call the ‘culture of death’. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/89 "2010-01-06T04:18:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Is is possible she has difficulty showing her emotions? Providing financial support especially if that person had to work hard to get that money is no small thing. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/90 "2010-01-06T04:27:08Z")
I have very little needs and even less wants. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/91 "2010-01-06T04:34:00Z")
I just noticed this: > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Women should definitely have the right not to have their bodies taken over by another person. But they should not have the right to kill a separate human being who is not threatening their body. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I agree with you that the fetus is a person. Is this a misunderstanding or just a cheap debate trick, because I didn’t get the same point from **Annie-Xmas’s** post? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/92 "2010-01-06T04:34:59Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think it’s interesting that **curlcoat** thinks we owe a debt to people who will never be productive again in their lives but we don’t owe anything to the people who if allowed to live will grow up to a long period of productivity. She has this strange notion that we should invest in death, and smother life. > > Definitely, the poster-child for what the pro-lifers call the ‘culture of death’. There is no way of knowing if a baby is going to grow up to a long period of productivity. He or she could become a drug addict or a serial killer which means you will spend millions maintaining them while they will contribute nothing, but carnage and destruction. Old people who have paid their dues deserve their reward. Children have that to earn still. Definitely, the poster-child for what the childfree call the ‘culture of baby worship’. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/93 "2010-01-06T04:50:21Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think it’s interesting that **curlcoat** thinks we owe a debt to people who will never be productive again in their lives but we don’t owe anything to the people who if allowed to live will grow up to a long period of productivity. She has this strange notion that we should invest in death, and smother life. > > Definitely, the poster-child for what the pro-lifers call the ‘culture of death’. **Curlcoat**? Do you mean **ZPG Zealot**? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/94 "2010-01-06T05:19:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think it’s interesting that **curlcoat** thinks we owe a debt to people who will never be productive again in their lives but we don’t owe anything to the people who if allowed to live will grow up to a long period of productivity. She has this strange notion that we should invest in death, and smother life. > > Definitely, the poster-child for what the pro-lifers call the ‘culture of death’. Wha? **curlcoat** hasn’t posted in this thread? **ZPGZealot** : who provides for your family when you end up in prison? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/95 "2010-01-06T05:23:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Definitely, the poster-child for what the childfree call the ‘culture of baby worship’. Yes I know. I know exactly what culture of baby worship means. It means people who revere life. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/96 "2010-01-06T07:27:39Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > There is no way of knowing if a baby is going to grow up to a long period of productivity. He or she could become a drug addict or a serial killer which means you will spend millions maintaining them while they will contribute nothing, but carnage and destruction. Old people who have paid their dues deserve their reward. Children have that to earn still. > > Definitely, the poster-child for what the childfree call the ‘culture of baby worship’. Gosh, I hate this argument. The vast, vast majority of babies grow up to be productive adult members of society, not drug adicts, or, for goodness’ sake, serial killers. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/97 "2010-01-06T07:30:50Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Gosh, I hate this argument. The vast, vast majority of babies grow up to be productive adult members of society, not drug adicts, or, for goodness’ sake, serial killers. Well, if it’s the vast, vast majority, then we could afford to lose a few potential productive adults and it wouldn’t make any difference. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/98 "2010-01-06T07:32:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, if it’s the vast, vast majority, then we could afford to lose a few potential productive adults and it wouldn’t make any difference. So then we should be able to kill productive adults too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/99 "2010-01-06T07:35:02Z")
Under certain circumstances, of course we should. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/100 "2010-01-06T12:31:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just noticed this: > Is this a misunderstanding or just a cheap debate trick, because I didn’t get the same point from **Annie-Xmas’s** post? She said _“Women should definitely have the right not to have their bodies taken over by another **person** ”_. Who can that person be other than the fetus? It’s clear she’s describing a pregnancy. I wouldn’t call it cheap because personhood is at the centre of all abortion debates here. Maybe it wasn’t her intention but it’s what she wrote. We pro-lifers always get the opposite answer when we say the fetus is a baby (i.e. “it’s a clump of cells”). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695.md?page=6)