# Of Infanticide and Abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695 "2010-01-05T00:07:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/141 "2010-01-06T19:15:26Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > In any case, the notion that it’s a good idea to kill a baby because he might turn out to be a serial killer has to be the most ridiculous one I’ve seen on this message board. And I’ve seen some whoppers. ALL I said is that experts agree that adoption is a causation factor in the making of a serial killer. Whether it’s bad genes or growing up without a biological bond to your family is debatable. But my main point is that adoption is NOT always a la-la land where everything ends up perfectly. I’ve actually heard anti-abortionists say that it’s better for a child to be born and then murdered than to be aborted. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/142 "2010-01-06T19:18:11Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Exactly, this. Yeah. I feel like **Zealot** ’s playing some kind of “When is it OK to murder babies?” game. How about if it’s a car accident and you know the car’s going to go up in flames and you just happen to have a gun and there’s NO CHANCE of freeing the baby, for good measure? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/143 "2010-01-06T19:19:26Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > ALL I said is that experts agree that adoption is a causation factor in the making of a serial killer. Whether it’s bad genes or growing up without a biological bond to your family is debatable. But my main point is that adoption is NOT always a la-la land where everything ends up perfectly. There are many arguments concerning adoption, but honestly the chances of an adoptee becomming a serial killer is about the _least_ of anyone’s worries. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/144 "2010-01-06T19:20:20Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > And the conclusion usually drawn from this is that “war is hell” and we should do everything in our power to prevent war – not to expand the horrors of war. And similarly, if starvation in 3rd world countries leads to infanticide – then that’s just another good reason to work to end starvation. To use this as a reason why infanticide should be condoned is just … words fail me. And re: the financial argument…99.999999% of the healthy happy children in the world were raised by non-millionaires. (and an equal number of the unhappy ones, too). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/145 "2010-01-06T19:21:39Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Yeah. I feel like **Zealot** ’s playing some kind of “When is it OK to murder babies?” game. How about if it’s a car accident and you know the car’s going to go up in flames and you just happen to have a gun and there’s NO CHANCE of freeing the baby, for good measure? Maybe he’s got some good recipies he’d like to try. 😉 You know, when the zombie apocalypse happens and he’s the only guy who can stop them but he’s faint with hunger and really annoyed by that crying baby … ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/146 "2010-01-06T19:25:09Z")
I wonder if **Zealot** took Swift literally. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Yeah. I feel like **Zealot** ’s playing some kind of “When is it OK to murder babies?” game. How about if it’s a car accident and you know the car’s going to go up in flames and you just happen to have a gun and there’s NO CHANCE of freeing the baby, for good measure? [Pssst!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11962129&postcount=136) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/147 "2010-01-06T19:32:06Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > ALL I said is that experts agree that adoption is a causation factor in the making of a serial killer. Can you show this? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/148 "2010-01-06T19:33:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I wonder if **Zealot** took Swift literally. > > [Pssst!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11962129&postcount=136) Whoops, _just_ saw your post. Sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/149 "2010-01-06T19:43:42Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > ALL I said is that experts agree that adoption is a causation factor in the making of a serial killer. No, I don’t think they do agree on any kind of causation, so please show a cite or stop saying it. > [@](#): > > Whether it’s bad genes or growing up without a biological bond to your family is debatable. I don’t believe anyone credible would suggest that it is solely due to growing up without a biological bond to your family. Do you have a cite for that? > [@](#): > > But my main point is that adoption is NOT always a la-la land where everything ends up perfectly. Right. Just like life. > [@](#): > > I’ve actually heard anti-abortionists say that it’s better for a child to be born and then murdered than to be aborted. If so, then they’ve obviously got a screw loose. How is that relevant to anything? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/150 "2010-01-06T19:53:03Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > ALL I said is that experts agree that adoption is a causation factor in the making of a serial killer. Whether it’s bad genes or growing up without a biological bond to your family is debatable. But my main point is that adoption is NOT always a la-la land where everything ends up perfectly. > > I’ve actually heard anti-abortionists say that it’s better for a child to be born and then murdered than to be aborted. My point wasn’t aimed at you, but at **ZPG Zealot**. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/151 "2010-01-06T19:54:13Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Things like that happen in war. Sometimes tough choice have to made. A fact that seems to be oblvious to the anti-abortion people. Even in war, this is an extremely rare situation. Even in the Holocaust, Jews did everything they could to help their babies survive, not kill them. ETA: By the way, I’m as pro-choice as they come. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/152 "2010-01-06T20:28:36Z")
I recall reading year ago that one historical reason for infanticide was the charming practice that the Christian society of the time had of executing women for “fornication”; even if she was raped. I can certainly see it as justified if she’s killing the baby to keep from being executed for being raped. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/153 "2010-01-06T20:33:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I recall reading year ago that one historical reason for infanticide was the charming practice that the Christian society of the time had of executing women for “fornication”; even if she was raped. I can certainly see it as justified if she’s killing the baby to keep from being executed for being raped. Interesting theory. Although it makes it sound like infanticide was unknown prior to, or outside of, Christian society. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/154 "2010-01-06T20:38:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Interesting theory. Although it makes it sound like infanticide was unknown prior to, or outside of, Christian society. He likes picking cherries. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/155 "2010-01-06T20:38:45Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Interesting theory. Although it makes it sound like infanticide was unknown prior to, or outside of, Christian society. No; just more common. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/156 "2010-01-06T20:43:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; just more common. Can you back this up with a cite? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/157 "2010-01-06T20:58:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Can you back this up with a cite? _Religion Bashing Illustrated_, Oct 2009. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/158 "2010-01-06T21:02:04Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > _Religion Bashing Illustrated_, Oct 2009. More like Oct 1009. Do you really want to defend Christian practices in ancient times? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/159 "2010-01-06T21:09:25Z")
No cite is really necessary. In the course of human history and across all human society, there have undoubtedly been millions of cases of infanticide, done for dozens of different reasons: all of them bad. Undoubtedly many of those reasons involved concealing the pregnancy; in some slices of society and time that concealment was to avoid clerical / religious punishment. Is this relevant or significant? Not IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695/160 "2010-01-06T21:16:17Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > More like Oct 1009. > > Do you really want to defend Christian practices in ancient times? I doubt anyone needs to defend something until it has been established as more than a reflexive smear. Unless you have a credible cite. A specific one, mind you. IOW, you made the following claim - > [@Der Trihs](#): > > ``` > I recall reading year ago that one historical reason for infanticide was the charming practice that the Christian society of the time had of executing women for "fornication"; even if she was raped. > > ``` So, we need a cite that executing women for being raped was a specifically Christian practice, and that there is evidence that this was a significant cause for infanticide. Make sure you include which society you are talking about, the historical period, and the evidence that it was a factor in infanticide. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-infanticide-and-abortion/523695.md?page=9)