# Of leashes and muzzles and women **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000 "2004-10-01T06:52:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/1 "2004-10-01T06:52:19Z")
First Bob Dole says there isn’t a muzzle big enough for Teresa Heinz Kerry (no cite, it was said on MSNBC), then Bush said he’s trying to put a leash on his daughers. (transcript of 9/30/04 debates: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate\_0930.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_0930.html)) KERRY: I’ve chuckled a few times at some of their comments. (LAUGHTER) And… BUSH: I’m trying to put a leash on them. ) Yes yes, I know they’re jokes, and I’m not freaking out about them. But geez, you’d think these Republican men would be a little bit more, well, sensitive, after the Abu Ghraib photos of prisoners on leashes. They’re not Spinal Tap. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/2 "2004-10-01T07:14:11Z")
It’s the Good Ol’ Boys Campaign Sound Byte contest. Nyuck, nycuk, nyuck.\<–queasy send-up, with eyes riveted on polls At least us wimmin types are finally an official demographic. Too bad we aren’t neatly packable by potential votes, almost like (gasp!) default human types! We very annoyingly blend all over the political landscape. It’s enough to make simple jokes so nerve wracking. We’re pissy that way. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/3 "2004-10-01T08:33:28Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > At least us wimmin types are finally an official demographic. Too bad we aren’t neatly packable by potential votes, almost like (gasp!) default human types! As far as I’ve heard on the news, we’re all either “Security Moms” or part of the “Sex In The City” vote. :smack: Lest anyone forget about leashes, here’s a link I didn’t have when I posted the OP: > **[File:Abu-ghraib-leash.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abu-ghraib-leash.jpg)** > > Abu-ghraib-leash.jpg ‎(460 × 388 pixels, file size: 35 KB, MIME type: image/jpeg) > العربية | català | čeština | Deutsch | Ελληνικά | English | español | eesti | فارسی | suomi | français | galego | हिन्दी | hrvatski | magyar | italiano | 日本語 | 한국어 | македонски | മലയാളം | Malti | Nederlands | polski | português | português do Brasil | română | русский | sicilianu | slovenčina | slovenščina | српски / srpski | ไทย | Türkçe | українська | Tiếng Việt | 中文 | 中文（简体）‎ | 中文（繁體）‎ | +/− > Click on a date/tim... ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/4 "2004-10-01T10:24:52Z")
But I’m hoping some political cartoonist has the guts to do something with this remark. It could do for this debate what Gore’s sighs did four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/5 "2004-10-01T12:43:35Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > BUSH: I’m trying to put a leash on them. ) Oh, jeez. :rolleyes: He’s a father of twin girls who were caught drinking underage. It was a throwaway line. I’ve often wished I could put a leash on my kids. What parent hasn’t? (And I don’t mean literally, although the leashes I’ve seen used on toddlers in the mall seem very effective. Allow the child the freedom to run around, but they won’t run off.) It was a father who loves his children trying to lessen the tension for a minute in a serious debate. There was no way he was serious. I didn’t give it a second thought. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/6 "2004-10-01T12:47:28Z")
I thought it was a funny joke, and I thought that cordial moment with the two candidates, even if fleeting, was a good way to end the debate. Pitting it is Reederesque. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/7 "2004-10-01T12:51:06Z")
I actually thought the zinger was Kerry’s response, something like, “I’ve learned not to try that.” Seemed like his way of saying, “Maybe you think of your daughters as something to control, but I respect mine.” That said, it was a minor, if telling, exchange. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/8 "2004-10-01T17:57:45Z")
Left Hand of Dorkness, I’m with you. It was very telling, on both sides. > [@Metacom](#): > > I thought it was a funny joke, and I thought that cordial moment with the two candidates, even if fleeting, was a good way to end the debate. I also thought it was a very human moment, and injected some levity and warmth into the sterile debates. Still, I was struck how Dole and Bush automatically think of muzzles and leashes when thinking of women. Besides calling up awful imagry (even before I remembered the Abu Ghraib photo), it’s disrespectful. I think it’s possible to laugh at something and be disturbed at the same time. I do it every week when I read The Onion. > [@Metacom](#): > > Pitting it is Reederesque. Oooh, guess I’d better watch out before I get marginalized (hey, if it’s good enough for a decent, honorable man like Al Gore, I guess it’s good enough for Reeder and me) and have posting limits put on me? Oooh, scary. Believe me, I _could_ start 20 threads a day with stuff a lot more serious than this. I send my constantly traveling husband “newsletters” with weird political things and outrages, many of which never see the light of day here (on SDMB). I have thought about posting them, keeping them all in one thread. I may still. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/9 "2004-10-01T18:43:02Z")
Hey, maybe Michael Moore can make a Big Deal out of it in his next film. You know: show the Abu Ghraib photo, then a parsed segment of Bush talking about leashing his daughters. I also think it would make a fine smear ad, if they could get it to press quickly enough. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/10 "2004-10-01T18:56:17Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Hey, maybe Michael Moore can make a Big Deal out of it in his next film. You know: show the Abu Ghraib photo, then a parsed segment of Bush talking about leashing his daughters. > > I also think it would make a fine smear ad, if they could get it to press quickly enough. I know! Where’s a 527 when you need one? I wish THIS would get a national airing: George W. Bush, keeping American scared! [http://home.earthlink.net/~houval/gopconstrm.mov](http://home.earthlink.net/~houval/gopconstrm.mov) Moore’s next film will be about health care in this country. I hear it’ll be called “Sicko.” Don’t quote me on the name though. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/11 "2004-10-01T20:07:31Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > …Believe me, I _could_ start 20 threads a day with stuff a lot more serious than this. I send my constantly traveling husband “newsletters” with weird political things and outrages, many of which never see the light of day here (on SDMB). I have thought about posting them, keeping them all in one thread. I may still. Heh, poor bastard probably savors his time away. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/12 "2004-10-01T20:16:54Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Heh, poor bastard probably savors his time away. Classy, **brutus**. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/13 "2004-10-01T20:17:38Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Heh, poor bastard probably savors his time away. _Smacks Brutus on the nose with a newspaper_ Bad boy! Bad Brutus! You can affectionately call me a “retard” whenever you like, but leave my husband (of 22 years, I might add) the fuck alone. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/14 "2004-10-01T20:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Orginally posted by Left Hand of Dorkness_ > I actually thought the zinger was Kerry’s response, something like, “I’ve learned not to try that.” Seemed like his way of saying, “Maybe you think of your daughters as something to control, but I respect mine.” But all that quote would mean is “I once saw my daughters as something to control but it failed” since he’s saying he once tried what Bush is now trying. But I actually don’t think the comments are worth much analysis. They were throwaway lines between the two guys. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/15 "2004-10-01T21:01:56Z")
Really Brutus. If you have to resort to personal insults in a political pit thread, maybe you should savor some time away. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/16 "2004-10-01T21:07:53Z")
You people do reliaze that putting someone or something “on a leash” is a common figurative saying. It applies to people that are a little rowdy as well as things like budgets that have gotten out of control. It does not mean to literally put a leash on someone or something. It means to reel back into control (not literally put a hook in the person’s mouth and pull them into an actual boat and … Oh well, I give up). There is nothing sexist about it. My mother used to use that line when I (a male) was a teenager but then again, she is from Texas too. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/17 "2004-10-01T21:12:14Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You people do reliaze that putting someone or something “on a leash” is a common figurative saying. Yeah, I realize that; I still think that it’s a little icky (a little, mind you, not full-blown, lying-to-Congress icky) to talk about “putting a leash” on your adult daughters. Others obviously have varying mileage. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/18 "2004-10-01T21:19:20Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > We’re pissy that way. [cough]PMS[/cough] ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/19 "2004-10-01T21:23:59Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > [cough]PMS[/cough] _:backs away rapidly_ Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000/20 "2004-10-01T21:31:38Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > But geez, you’d think these Republican men would be a little bit more, well, sensitive, after the Abu Ghraib photos of prisoners on leashes. But if our leaders aren’t free to use whatever metaphors they want, then THE TERRORISTS WIN! (Ok, yes, that joke is little played, but I still had to say it. 😛 ) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-leashes-and-muzzles-and-women/267000.md?page=2)