# of nuclear and EMP **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613 "2004-05-05T10:05:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/21 "2004-05-07T21:15:33Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > To knock out power to a city like Las Vegas using a conventional EMP you would need to: > > 1. Do a single explosion that would be on a near-nuclear scale. The immediate physical damage would kill thousands, topple buildings as well as _permanently_ ruin a lot of electronics. _Nothing_ within range would _ever_ work again. Once something is fried, it stays fried. Fuses and cicuit breakers aren’t even in the same class of stuff needed to provide adequate protection. I’ve seen a [url=http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/CuttingEdge/empbombs011019.htmldescription of a device that could generate a very large EMP from a few tons of explosives. I’d hardly call that nuclear scale. It involved a coil of wire and an electromagnet rigged to short out as the explosives went off. ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/22 "2004-05-07T21:17:04Z")
[bah](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/CuttingEdge/empbombs011019.html) ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/23 "2004-05-07T21:20:09Z")
Here’s a [better](http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/ebomb.html) link. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/24 "2004-05-07T21:41:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s not too difficult, actually. Unlike for radiation hardening, where you need thick shielding of lead or similar material (very heavy, to put on aircraft), for EMP shielding all you need is a good conductor. I wouldn’t be surprised if superconductors (together with the requisite cryogenic systems) are used in many pieces of military hardware, and I would be surprised if they don’t at least use silver. Umm, think in terms of a high performance stealth fighter jet made with a lot of composite materials. Superconductors on a jet? Extra conductive shielding is not good for trying to stay stealthy. And there’s the issue of grounding the thing. Don’t forget antennas and other sensors that are extremely sensitive and are incredibly hard to protect from short pulses. It’s not at all like a lightning strike which hits in a small number of places and takes a bit of time to go full surge. On the ground, real life vehicles cannot be enclosed completely, the pulse is going to get in somehow. For buildings, there’s a lot of copper wiring running around. Coax can survive an EMP pulse in many cases, but just about every other type of copper wiring is a Big Problem. You can’t put Faraday cages around your phone and power lines. I think the DoD is going to pass on your grant application. I am puzzled by **Thaumaturge** ’s links in regard to his post. The links back up what I said. And so the issue is … ? ---
**Author:** ![Thaumaturge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@Thaumaturge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaumaturge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/25 "2004-05-07T22:21:27Z")
**ftg** , you said that you’d need either a nuke or a lot of small explosions to wipe out all power in a city the size of Las Vegas. What I forgot to mention in my post ( got sidetracked :smack: Also didn’t notice that you mentioned conventional EMP farther up)was the recently demonstrated vulnerability of the power grid. All you’d likely need to do was to knock out a main power generating plant during peak hours, and the grid would likely fail. I could see an EMP placed near some high tension lines causing a city’s grid to fail. The surge would cause the substation to shut down. The loss of power would trip the safeties and cause the power plant to shut down. Loss of one power plant without warning would trip the others. ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/26 "2004-05-08T07:33:38Z")
I guess that helicopter would have nailed John Travolta in **Broken Arrow** then! (In the movie, the EMP of an underground nuclear explosion brings down a helicopter that was drawing a bead on Travolta. But since there is no gamma-ray-atmosphere interaction with an underground explosion, there wouldn’t have been an EMP.) ---
**Author:** ![coop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@coop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coop)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/27 "2004-05-08T10:40:55Z")
> [@cabdude](#): > > And STILL no one wants to quote the obvious movie reference. **coop** stands up drunkedly (he is drinking Wild Turkey after all) waves his right hand - all the while shouting, “Pick me, pick me, I know!!!” **cabdude** peers at him, lowers his monacle and deigns to acknowledge said posturing. " ‘Hi There’ was written on the bomb from Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb." shouts **coop** excitedly. “Where’s my KUDO!!!” ---
**Author:** ![cabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@cabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cabdude)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613/28 "2004-05-08T12:15:01Z")
> [@coop](#): > > **coop** stands up drunkedly (he is drinking Wild Turkey after all) waves his right hand - all the while shouting, “Pick me, pick me, I know!!!” > > **cabdude** peers at him, lowers his monacle and deigns to acknowledge said posturing. > > " ‘Hi There’ was written on the bomb from Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb." shouts **coop** excitedly. “Where’s my KUDO!!!” “Congratulations my boy,” says Cabdude in a condescending voice, his silk scarf waving carelessly in the wind. “Here is your Kudo, you’ve certainly earned it. Now BEGONE FROM MY SIGHT!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-nuclear-and-emp/243613.md?page=1)