# Of Sapphics and Lesbians **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 31, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857 "2021-08-31T20:30:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/1 "2021-08-31T20:30:44Z")
Just a word origin question here. I don’t want this to turn into a debate on sexuality. Why are female homosexuals called _Lesbians_? The poet’s name was Sappho. Lesbos is just where she came from. Seems a bit misleading to me. Because there still is an island Lesbos. And people there, believe it or not, are still called Lesbians. And I assume most of them aren’t female homosexuals (not that there is anything wrong with that). Again, why? And while we’re at it, what does Sapphic then mean? Someone use it in a sentence please. Thank you in advance for your kindly and civil replies 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/4 "2021-08-31T20:40:24Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Why are female homosexuals called _Lesbians_ ? The poet’s name was Sappho. Lesbos is just where she came from. Seems a bit misleading to me. Misleading in what way exactly? > **[Where does the word lesbian come from?](https://www.liveabout.com/what-is-the-origin-of-the-word-lesbian-2171260)** > > Find out the origin of the word lesbian, which has been in use since around 600 B.C. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/5 "2021-08-31T20:41:04Z")
The Wikipedia entry on the term “lesbian” indicates that its use for a homosexual woman is relatively recent (dating to ~1870), and that, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, both “lesbian” and “sapphic” were used interchangeably; it also notes that, by the 1920s, the former term started to become more prominent. > **[Lesbian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian#Origin_and_transformation_of_the_term)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > A lesbian is a homosexual woman or girl. The word is also used for women in relation to their sexual identity or sexual behavior, regardless of sexual orientation, or as an adjective to characterize or associate nouns with female homosexuality or same-sex attraction. The concept of "lesbian" to differentiate women with a shared sexual orientation evolved in the 20th century. Throughout history, women have not had the same freedom or independenc... ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/6 "2021-08-31T21:02:41Z")
In actual lesbian literature and political language, it’s not unusual to encounter the term “Sapphic”. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/7 "2021-09-01T00:26:02Z")
There’s a place called Bohemia. Not everyone who lived in it are particularly bohemian. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/8 "2021-09-01T01:24:27Z")
Nor are the people of Delphi necessarily given to cryptic (delphic) utterances. Nor are the people of Laconia/Lakonia particularly laconic. Hee, this is fun. Anybody got others? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/9 "2021-09-01T01:31:42Z")
The folks of Byzantium aren’t really all that complicated or difficult. The folks of Sparta aren’t necessarily austere or minimalist. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/10 "2021-09-01T01:38:36Z")
Or laconic. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/11 "2021-09-01T01:39:10Z")
And finally, not all inhabitants of the region formerly known as Tartary are domineering or irascible, and not all twins from Thailand (Siam) are… well, you get the idea. > [@DesertDog](#): > > Or laconic. Yup, see post #8. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/12 "2021-09-01T01:42:34Z")
Dang it. Stopped reading at “Delphi.” ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/13 "2021-09-01T01:46:17Z")
The five Cities of the Plain: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboyim and Bala-Zoar. Approach an undercover vice cop and ask “Bala-Zoar?” and see the look on his face. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/14 "2021-09-01T01:46:27Z")
On the other hand, Boring Oregon isn’t the most exciting place in the world, and the less said about Athol Idaho the better. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/15 "2021-09-01T01:48:09Z")
I was told that modern inhabitants of Lesbos are called Lesbosians. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/16 "2021-09-01T01:54:56Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Or laconic. Laocoönic, though, for those days when you feel like you’re being dragged under by snakes. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/17 "2021-09-01T03:03:40Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > There’s a place called Bohemia. Not everyone who lived in it are particularly bohemian. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Nor are the people of Delphi necessarily given to cryptic (delphic) utterances. > [@Kimstu](#): > > The folks of Byzantium aren’t really all that complicated or difficult. The folks of Sparta aren’t necessarily austere or minimalist. > [@Kimstu](#): > > And finally, not all inhabitants of the region formerly known as Tartary are domineering or irascible These are, however, all based on stereotypes that at one time had some (perceived) basis in reality, unlike the use of Lesbian. There was never a stereotype about people from Lesbos all or mostly being Sapphic women. It is just a quirk of accumulated preference for the term by a variety of people over time. Maybe it’s easier to say, or to remember how to spell correctly. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/18 "2021-09-01T03:11:42Z")
This Tangent is a Drain (Oregon). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/19 "2021-09-01T03:44:14Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > These are, however, all based on stereotypes that at one time had some (perceived) basis in reality, unlike the use of Lesbian. There was never a stereotype about people from Lesbos all or mostly being Sapphic women. Good point, although IIRC there are also other examples of the toponymic epithet of just one individual later being applied to an entire group. The one that comes to mind is “Stagirites” for followers of Aristotelian philosophy, since Aristotle came from the city of Stagira. But AFAIK there was never any stereotype about people from Stagira in general being philosophers. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/20 "2021-09-01T03:50:31Z")
As understand the only connection between Lesbos and lesbians is Sappho herself. Somewhat fitting IMO (though I’m a cishet white man) basically we know about the Sappho’s sexuality from mediocre male Greek writers (who basically no-one remembers), who wrote snickering about the hilarity and scandal of a Woman teacher having sexual relationship with their female student (something that was 100% acceptable for men with their male students at the time of course.) That in turn was picked up a couple of millennia later by Victorian classicists (again mediocre male writers who no one remembers) who used the term “lesbian” to refer to her poetry as she was from Lesbos. So every time the term is used its specifically commemorating (by all accounts great) female poet. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/21 "2021-09-01T03:57:45Z")
[As well as the name of a ship purchased by the US Navy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Sappho_(SP-1427)), despite its service at a time when [the navy undersecretary and future president was conducting a gay witch hunt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_sex_scandal) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2021, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857/22 "2021-09-01T04:46:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The folks of Byzantium aren’t really all that complicated or difficult. The folks of Sparta aren’t necessarily austere or minimalist. And people from Venice are not necessarily blind. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-sapphics-and-lesbians/949857.md?page=2)