# Of Yankees and Southerners **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115 "2008-06-24T21:45:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/61 "2008-06-27T19:18:49Z")
Having been born in Washington DC and moving all over the continental US during my long stint as a military brat (before I too joined the military to venture into far off and exotic deserts, er, _places_), I must say that I fart in all your general directions as a rootless wanderer, with no regional or state loyalties to speak of and no accent to my English. **thumbs nose** šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/62 "2008-06-27T19:56:21Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] As long as you give the individual Southerners you meet the benefit of the doubt, thatā€™s all anyone can ask. [/QUOTE] Deal. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/63 "2008-06-27T20:00:28Z")
Total hijack. Sorry, just saw the link, thought it was relevant, sort of. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/64 "2008-06-28T03:56:59Z")
**Jodi** , I am familiar with Cary. Are you aware that it is not at all a typical Southern town? Less than 30% of its residents are from North Carolina. That has earned it the nickname of **C** ontainment **A** rea for **R** elocated **Y** ankees. Mind you, its reputation has spread from the middle of North Carolina to the middle of Tennessee. It is a beautiful small city with wealthy, highly educated people from out of state. My husband and I had the unpleasant experience of spending several Christmases with two of them who ridiculed everything about Southern culture including the dialect we speak. I believe their ill manners came from their ignorance and not from the place of their birth in New England. We have spent too much time on the coast of Maine to think ill of New Englanders. At any rate, stereotypes that say that we are stuck in the past have **no grain of truth** to them. People who say that many people in the South are interested in history may be speaking the truth. That is quite different. There is good reason that we are not so interested in the Revolutionary War. Most areas of the South were occupied by American Indians only at the time of the Revolution. The coastal areas are an exception, of course. But for the most part, there was no there there. My G-G-G-G-Grandfather had his comission signed by John Hancock and I know where heā€™s buried in North Carolina. Thatā€™s all I know. But there was a Civil War battle where I live. And my grandfather fought in a battle thirty miles away. I have the letters he wrote to get his pension. It is natural to be more interested in that which is near to me. I hope that you will be happy in your new home. I hope they open up to you and you to them. Youā€™ve always seemed sensible and pleasant to me. (Not at all like the people we had to deal with every Christmas in Cary. And that was just two residents who didnā€™t seem to be typical.) ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/65 "2008-06-28T15:20:03Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] **Jodi** , I am familiar with Cary. Are you aware that it is not at all a typical Southern town? [/quote] Of course; thatā€™s why I chose it as my example, so I could include the line about Indian tech professionals as an oblique way of acknowledging that the South can be multicultural and modern. So Iā€™m not sure why youā€™re pointing on that itā€™s not ā€œtypicalā€ of the South, as if that refutes something I said. Any yes, ā€œContainment Area for Relocated Yankeesā€ ā€“ ha ha ha. I donā€™t live there, but I bet that never ceases to amuse those who do. > [@](#): > > At any rate, stereotypes that say that we are stuck in the past have **no grain of truth** to them. People who say that many people in the South are interested in history may be speaking the truth. That is quite different. First, I never said anyone was ā€œstuck in the past.ā€ But, second, I think thereā€™s a mighty fine line between being ā€œinterested in historyā€ and being so in a way that might strike others (outsiders) as, as uou say, ā€œstuck in the past.ā€ Third, again and with respect, I donā€™t think youā€™re in a position to tell me what does or does not have a grain of truth to it, when we are talking about _my_ experiences. > [@](#): > > There is good reason that we are not so interested in the Revolutionary War. Most areas of the South were occupied by American Indians only at the time of the Revolution. The coastal areas are an exception, of course. But for the most part, there was no there there. This is mostly a hijack but . . . This is what I find so amazing: That you as a Southerner would think this. I guess it depends on where you live, but where I live, it is completely inaccurate. There is a lot of pre-Civil War history in my state (North Carolina), and it isnā€™t all confined to the coast. Asheville was founded aroud 1780. Hillsborough in 1754. Charlotte in 1786. As far as the Revolutionary War specifically is concerned: The British planned and executed an entire Southern campaign, which saw Cornwallis invading North Carolina from the North. In South Carolina, division as to which side to support in the War had the colony in what was essentially a state of civil war between Loyalists and Patriots. Cornwallisā€™s Southern campaign cumulated in the Battle of Kingā€™s Mountain, near Charlotte on the North Carolina/South Carolina border, hundreds of miles from the coast. Arguably the single most important battle in the late war, Kingā€™s Mountain was a resounding victory for the Southern Patriots and showed that the British could not rely on assumed Loyalist support from Georgia and the Carolinas to turn the tide of the war. So as a response to why people donā€™t talk about that history much, I am completely unpersuaded by the assertion that there just wasnā€™t much of it going on. But again, maybe this is regional and nothing _was_ going on in your neck of the woods, I donā€™t know. Here endeth the hijack. > [@](#): > > I hope that you will be happy in your new home. I hope they open up to you and you to them. Youā€™ve always seemed sensible and pleasant to me. Thanks. Backatcha. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/66 "2008-06-28T15:43:23Z")
**Jodi** , I agree with you that people here donā€™t pay due attention to their Revolutionary War history. Most people are completely unaware that there are Revolutionary War battlefields to be seen within easy driving distance. I suspect the reason is that in the popular mind the Revolution is most closely associated with Boston and Philadelphia, and it just doesnā€™t occur to locals that there was fighting in their own back yards. (In fact, the war was won in the South. The failure of the Southern Campaign doomed the British cause.) The other factor is that a lot of Southerners have known genealogical connections to the Civil War, whereas Southern genealogy tends to get very fuzzy in the antebellum era (between courthouse fires and the fact that much of the South was frontier during that era), and most Southerners, if they have an ancestor who fought in the Revolution, just donā€™t know it. For that matter, most Southerners donā€™t think about their connection to the Jamestown Colony the way many Northerners do about their connection to the Mayflower. (Though based on my own research, Iā€™d be willing to bet that a majority of those of Southern heritage could claim at least one Jamestown ancestor ā€“ if they only knew it.) ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/67 "2008-06-28T15:52:39Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] **Jodi** , I agree with you that people here donā€™t pay due attention to their Revolutionary War history. Most people are completely unaware that there are Revolutionary War battlefields to be seen within easy driving distance. I suspect the reason is that in the popular mind the Revolution is most closely associated with Boston and Philadelphia, and it just doesnā€™t occur to locals that there was fighting in their own back yards. (In fact, the war was won in the South. The failure of the Southern Campaign doomed the British cause.) [/quote] I know! But thatā€™s my point: Not just that there is some _amazing_ extra-Civil War history down here ā€“ for me, the maritime history is particularly fascinating, aguably better ship building than in Boston ā€“ but itā€™s not just that Northerners donā€™t know that, a lot of Southerners donā€™t either. And I completely undestand a focus on the Civil War due to both closer personal assoication (relatives who fought in it) and, well, just the dislocating regional horror of it, which also feels personal. But my point is that there is a reason people _perceive_ that Southern history is all about the Civil War; to a great extent IME thatā€™s not just Historical Topic 1 on the South, but HTs 1 through 10, even down here. There _is_ a historical focus on the Civil War, though I suppose we could argue abou whether itā€™s disproportional or not. But I donā€™t think itā€™s fair to say thatā€™s just my perception, or just my personal POV. Note that I am not saying anyone is ā€œliving in the past,ā€ or ā€œthrowing history in my face,ā€ or any of that. But there is IME some truth to the assertion that the Southā€™s collective historical focus tends to be pretty narrow. I wish it were broader, not because I think the Civil War deserves less attention, but because IME history down here is some much richer than that. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/68 "2008-06-28T16:18:42Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] I wish it were broader, not because I think the Civil War deserves less attention, but because IME history down here is some much richer than that. [/QUOTE] I share your frustration. Jamestown gets neglected in favor of the Mayflower for some reason Iā€™ve never comprehended. Southerners just donā€™t think much about their colonial history. The Southā€™s later frontier history is also very interesting. Everybodyā€™s heard of Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone, but in most peopleā€™s minds, when they hear the word ā€œfrontierā€ it conjures up images of the West, not the South. (Much of which, of course, used to _be_ ā€œthe West.ā€) Everyone knows about the Trail of Tears, but few know about [the conflicts that preceded it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Cherokee_War). No one talks much or thinks much about the Creek War or the Seminole Wars, or Andrew Jacksonā€™s campaign in what is now Alabama. (There is a very fine museum and well-maintained battlefield at Horseshoe Bend, incidentally.) Nobody thinks or talks much about the Fort Mims massacre, and its effects on subsequent history (culminating in the aforementioned Trail of Tears). Few think about the history of the coastal South as a pirate haven. In the popular mind, pirates are associated with Caribbean islands. Few think about the Spanish history that preceded the English history here, or the several Spanish missions scattered about the South in locations now unknown. Not many folks think or know about the Southā€™s history of progressive populism, or its association with The Peopleā€™s Party. Most folks just assume the South has always been a bastion of economic conservatism. I understand intellectually why people who are interested in history tend to focus on the great horrible of the Civil War, but it _is_ frustrating. There is a lot of other interesting history around. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/69 "2008-06-29T06:25:45Z")
**Jodi** , I did not say that the South dinā€™t have a history before the Civil War. Read what I said: > [@](#): > > Most areas of the South were occupied by American Indians only at the time of the Revolution. The coastal areas are an exception, of course. I could have phrased that better: ā€œMost areas of the South were occupied by only American Indians at the time of the Revolution. The coastal areas are an exception, of course.ā€ Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia are all on the East Coast. The Revolutionary War ended in 1789. Atlanta was founded in 1837. Memphis was founded in 1820. Jackson, Mississippi was founded in 1821. Montgomery, Alabama was founded in 1816. Knoxville was founded in 1794 Birmingham was founded in 1871 Chattanooga was founded in 1815 Savannah was founded one hundred years before Atlanta. And Charlotte was not founded in 1786 as you said. (I assume that was a typo.) The first couple settled there in 1853 and it was incorporated and became the county seat in 1868. It is more than one hundred years older than Birmingham. As I said before, **there was no there there.** But you are so wrong when you say that our focus is narrower! We are enormously proud of our American Indian heritage here. We study it, celebrate it, honor it, and protest when that heritage is disrespected. We have exhibits in museums, special interest groups, powwows, and an observance of the Trail of Tears that continues to grow every year. We also have a love of geneology and trace our lines back wherever they lead our focuses. As for Rep. David Crockett, one of his houses was four miles up the road from where I grew up. My first cousin is the curator there. I call him Rep. Crockett because he was the Congressman from my District back before he took that dang fool interest in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/70 "2008-06-29T07:29:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Zoe > **Jodi** , I am familiar with Cary. Are you aware that it is not at all a typical Southern town? > [@](#): > > **Jodi** : Of course; thatā€™s why I chose it as my example, so I could include the line about Indian tech professionals as an oblique way of acknowledging that the South can be multicultural and modernā€¦ Cary isnā€™t typical of a Southern town and thatā€™s why you chose it as an example of a Southern town? Hmmm. > [@](#): > > So Iā€™m not sure why youā€™re pointing on that itā€™s not ā€œtypicalā€ of the South, as if that refutes something I said. I donā€™t think that you can get a very accurate image of Southerners by observing what non-Southerners do. > [@](#): > > Any yes, ā€œContainment Area for Relocated Yankeesā€ ā€“ ha ha ha. I donā€™t live there, but I bet that never ceases to amuse those who do. I thought that it was rather crass myself. There is no accounting for taste. I am a little curious about why your posts had been phrased in such a way that any reader would normally have assumed that you live in Cary. These quotations are posted sequentially and are excerpted from this thread: > [@](#): > > **Jodi** ā€¦ Except Iā€™m quite obviously not only seeing one pixel. I live here, and have for almost three years. Iā€™m moving soon from one Southern state to another, and anticipate living down here for the foreseeable future. Look, you can try to minimize my experience if you want, though on what basis you could do so is beyond meā€¦ > [@](#): > > **Jodi** ā€¦Itā€™s not like random strangers on the streets of Cary come up to me and say ā€œthe South will rise again!ā€ (Not least because chances are pretty good that a random person on the streets of Cary will be an Indian tech professional.) But when society or history are the topic, yeah, I do get a sense of wistfulness for glories past. Maybe itā€™s just that coming from Montana I donā€™t have any historical glories to mourn, but it does strike meā€¦ > [@](#): > > **Jodi** : Iā€™ve said it before: One thing that surprised me when I came down here with an interest in history, is how much Revolutionary War history (and pre-RW history) there is. > And Iā€™ve also said this before: Itā€™s not like Iā€™ve personally made this up. I understand that you rightly object to stereotypes of the South that you make all of you sound stuck in the past, or worse. But those stereotypes do have a grain of truth to them.I wasnā€™t born and raised here. Iā€™m from the North. I can only tell you what I detect, and reassure you that itā€™s not like Iā€™m thinking about it or talking about it or even noticing it all day everyday, either. Iā€™m not, and I donā€™t; itā€™s not a big part of my experience of the South. But it is there IME, and with all due respect, none of you is in a position to tell me Iā€™m wrong about that. > (Larger font added) > [@](#): > > originally posted by Zoe: > At any rate, stereotypes that say that we are stuck in the past have no grain of truth to them. People who say that many people in the South are interested in history may be speaking the truth. That is quite different. > [@](#): > > **Jodi** : First, I never said anyone was ā€œstuck in the past.ā€ See larger font above. You said that the stereotypes that say that Southerners are ā€œstuck in the pastā€ have a grain of truth to them." > [@](#): > > **Jodi** : But, second, I think thereā€™s a mighty fine line between being ā€œinterested in historyā€ and being so in a way that might strike others (outsiders) as, as uou say, ā€œstuck in the past.ā€ Third, again and with respect, I donā€™t think youā€™re in a position to tell me what does or does not have a grain of truth to it, when we are talking about my experiences. Look whoā€™s talkinā€™, woman! You are telling me that the stereotype about Southerners is somewhat true; therefore you are talking about me and my people, but Iā€™m not allowed to comment on YOUR experiences or estimations about my people. Oh joy! And I am in a very good position to tell you that your impressions of Southerners are very limited and lacking in essential background information. (See post on Revolutionary War.) I have lived in the South for 65 years. My ancestors have lived in the South for ten generations before me. They sat in the House of Burgesses a hundred years before George Washington. Cary? Multi-cultural? If you want a real multi-cultural community, come and see my neighborhood. I had the privilege of seeing people vote of the Iraqi government. And thatā€™s only one of about nine ethnic groups or nationalities in South Nashville. There is even a sign up in front of one business that says, ā€œWe Speak English.ā€ You have no idea how narrow the focus of others can seem to me. When you get your stories all straight and can make some sense as you usually do, come on back and be reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/71 "2008-06-29T15:59:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Atlanta was founded in 1837. Kinda. (_snicker_ Marthasville _snicker_) ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/72 "2008-06-29T16:45:25Z")
What do Southerners think when Northerners borrow yā€™allā€™s mannerisms? Such as ā€œyā€™allā€™sā€? Or the wearing of seersucker and white bucks in summertime? (Midwesterners also did this years ago thanks to our miserable humidity. Nowadays youā€™re liable to get calls of ā€œIce Cream Manā€ or ā€œdonā€™t step in cow flop.ā€ Easterners just assume you have a Tennessee Williams fixation.) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/73 "2008-06-29T17:06:45Z")
Whatever consenting seers do behind closed doors is their own business. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/74 "2008-06-29T17:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] ā€œMost areas of the South were occupied by only American Indians at the time of the Revolution. The coastal areas are an exception, of course.ā€ Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia are all on the East Coast. [/QUOTE] Right, but most areas of the North were also occupied by only American Indians at the time of the Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/75 "2008-06-29T18:23:53Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Cary isnā€™t typical of a Southern town and thatā€™s why you chose it as an example of a Southern town? Hmmm. [/quote] It IS a Southern town. Unless youā€™re exempting North Carolina from the South. I never said it was ā€œtypical,ā€ in fact the entire reason I cited it was as an implied example of the multicultural nature of the South. As Iā€™ve already said. So you seem to have pretty much missed my point in that regard. Hmmm, indeed. > [@](#): > > I donā€™t think that you can get a very accurate image of Southerners by observing what non-Southerners do. This seems obvious. What did I say that led you to believe Iā€™ve lived here for three years and yet only ā€œobservedā€ non-Southerners? > [@](#): > > I am a little curious about why your posts had been phrased in such a way that any reader would normally have assumed that you live in Cary. They werenā€™t intentionally phrased that way, but I donā€™t actually care where people assume I live. I canā€™t see the relevance. Iā€™ve already said I live in North Carolina. > [@](#): > > See larger font above. You said that the stereotypes that say that Southerners are ā€œstuck in the pastā€ have a grain of truth to them." Correct. And Iā€™ve been pretty careful, pretty reasonable, and pretty damn polite in further clarifying that. But thereā€™s no question that this is an accurate generalization of my experience, and that neither you nor anyone else is in a position to say thatā€™s wrong. > [@](#): > > Look whoā€™s talkinā€™, woman! You are telling me that the stereotype about Southerners is somewhat true; therefore you are talking about me and my people, but Iā€™m not allowed to comment on YOUR experiences or estimations about my people. Oh joy! You can comment all you want on YOUR experiences and YOUR estimations. You have no basis to comment on me or mine. I am not talking about you; I donā€™t know you. I donā€™t know who you consider ā€œyour peopleā€ ā€“ except that you apparently exclude the good people of Cary. Unlike you, I have never tried to assert that your experiences or conclusions are ā€“ must be ā€“ incorrect. Itā€™s a funny POV, IMO: as if thereā€™s no room for reality between ā€œno stereotypical accuracy whatsoeverā€ or ā€œevery Southern is a complete caricatureā€, with me implicitly adopting the latter opinion, of course. In fact, I pretty clearly never said anything like that, and I will consistently refute every attempt to construe my opinions that way. People are willing to accept that there is a Southern ethos, a Southern culture, and Southern frame of mind. But they want to completely deny that so much as a _grain_ of accuracy might exist in Southern stereotypes ā€“ which is the most Iā€™ve ever said ā€“ as if Southern stereotypes and Southern culture are completely divorced, one magically arising without any relation to the other. To me, it defies common sense. > [@](#): > > And I am in a very good position to tell you that your impressions of Southerners are very limited and lacking in essential background information. (See post on Revolutionary War.) I have lived in the South for 65 years. My ancestors have lived in the South for ten generations before me. They sat in the House of Burgesses a hundred years before George Washington. You can say whatever you like; I will give it the weight I think it deserves. For example, you are now saying that because North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia or coastal states, the entirety of them may be described as ā€œcoastal.ā€ You simultaneously say that you ā€œvalue and honorā€ your Native American heritage but also say that when most of the South was occupied only by Native Americans, ā€œthere was no there there.ā€ Frankly, I donā€™t think these arguments needing specifc refutation by me; I think any one reading them can judge their merits. > [@](#): > > When you get your stories all straight and can make some sense as you usually do, come on back and be reasonable. Thereā€™s nothing that needs straightening out in my ā€œstories.ā€ Thereā€™s nothing in them that lacks in sense or coherency. I do not grant you the authority to sit in judgment over their accuracy, validity, or value. I donā€™t give a good god damn if you agree with me or not; I donā€™t give a good god damn if you even believe me or not. Iā€™ve been pretty careful in explaining my opinions and experiences in a way that was (I hoped) not insulting or divisive, while still being honest and true. But that is not enough for you ā€“ or, apparently, for the two or three other over-senstive Southern apologists on this Board ā€“ you want me to admit Iā€™m wrong, when I donā€™t think I am, or deny my experience, which I obviously cannot do. If there are materials you would like to direct me to, Iā€™d be happy to read them. If there are places youā€™d like to suggest I visit to correct my IYO skewed view, I would be happy to visit them if possible. But Iā€™m done pretending patience with people who want to try to argue me out of my own conclusions, or who want to high-handedly tell me I must be wrong just because they wish I were. I feel like my position has been made clear and probably canā€™t be made clearer. Iā€™m also losing my patience, and Iā€™ve already promised someone else Iā€™d try to do better in that regard. Iā€™ll check back for any of the suggestions I referred to, but other than that, Iā€™m done with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115/76 "2008-06-29T21:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] [QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] As far as I can tell up here, the South is looked down upon as backwards. This feeds the southern stereotype that all Northerners think they are better than the South. Really in reality the South is the whipping boy for the rest of the country. This is also true for damn near any nation. One particular region will get the brunt of the jokes. In Spain you have Galacia, Denmark you have the South-West coast, in Canada you have Alberta, etc.. [/QUOTE] I thought it was Newfies and Quebec? [/QUOTE] Newfoundlanders, but that pales in comparison to the ridicule of the backwardness of the Americans. Confederate v. Yankee? Might as well be Beavis v. Butt-head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/of-yankees-and-southerners/454115.md?page=3)