# Off-duty pilot tries to shut down the engines mid-flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966 "2023-10-23T17:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/221 "2024-01-07T23:29:04Z")
It is. I’m half-expecting some of my other aviation youtubers to put something out soon as well. I think Chloe/Disaster Breakdown could do a really good job with it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/222 "2024-01-07T23:33:50Z")
While that video lays out the “what happened” part well I think the more important part is he notes how the airline industry does not deal with mental health problems of its pilots and other staff well. The problem is pilots can easily lose their career if they seek mental health treatment (especially if they need medication) and it can be difficult to impossible to get back to flying. So, they are incentivized to not seek treatment if they are having problems which can lead to something like this happening. Not an easy problem to resolve. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/223 "2024-01-08T03:24:28Z")
Some _carriers_ are trying real hard to be proactive. Others are behind the times. But as you say, the Feds are the rate-limiting step here. Until they are on board with not killing careers, the fear will be there. Another approach of course is to carry full career earnings replacement insurance. But that’s darn expensive and also prone to fraudulent claims. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/224 "2024-01-08T20:21:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Some _carriers_ are trying real hard to be proactive. Others are behind the times. But as you say, the **Feds** are the rate-limiting step here. Until they are on board with not killing careers, the fear will be there. Is that a specifically american problem or is it a global one (the whole stepping-into-a-world-of-hurt when admitting mental problems) IOW, are there countries that are more progressive than others? (my kneejerk reaction is NO, b/c what would a progressive country do when being serviced by a US airline/pilot, so it has to be a pretty much global standard, right?) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/225 "2024-01-08T22:14:26Z")
Broad brush you nailed it. The various countries are free to set their own standards but there are international bodies to tsk-tsk anyone getting too far away from the current herd concensus. Separately their mandate is not career continuity but opwrating safety. We are in the Dark Ages of psychology / psychiatry. Nobody wants a sick pilot. Nobody wants to pay a sick pilot to stay home. No pilot wants to stay home for life unpaid. It’s a barbed-wire Iron Triangle. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/226 "2024-08-22T18:43:11Z")
Bumping this to share that there is a documentary coming out on Friday about this case. It will be on FX on Friday (8/23) and streaming on Hulu starting the next day. > **[The New York Times Presents: Lie to Fly | Official Teaser: Alaska Airlines...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFI9qHUS04?t=0)** > > A pilot's promising career takes a dark turn when he’s accused of attempting to down a plane after taking psychedelic mushrooms. The film delves into pilot m... ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/227 "2024-08-23T20:06:57Z")
> **[Former Alaska Airlines pilot who tried to shut down engines in-flight shares...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/former-alaska-airlines-pilot-shut-engines-flight-shares/story?id=113066835)** > > Joe Emerson, the pilot who attempted to shut down the engines of an in-flight Alaska Airlines plane, shares his story with ABC News. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/228 "2025-11-18T06:30:39Z")
> U.S. District Court Judge Amy Baggio in Portland, Oregon, sentenced Joseph Emerson to time served and three years’ supervised release, ending a case that drew attention to the need for [cockpit safety](https://apnews.com/article/airline-security-safety-insider-threat-emerson-90d1285c4df305e59add39e3d5a93424) and [more mental health support for pilots](https://apnews.com/article/horizon-air-emergency-pilots-mental-health-f25aa0314129b5f8a2f96b7bbdd816d9). > > Federal prosecutors wanted a year in prison, while his attorneys sought probation. > > “Pilots are not perfect. They are human,” Baggio said. “They are people and all people need help sometimes.” > **[Off-duty pilot who tried to cut a flight’s engines midair won't serve prison...](https://apnews.com/article/pilot-mushrooms-alaska-airlines-horizon-air-flight-510e76580bbc658419e26f1c09c26136)** > > A federal judge has decided that a former Alaska Airlines pilot who tried to cut the engines of a passenger flight in 2023 won't serve prison time. I disagree; he should have been sentenced to some prison time. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/229 "2025-11-18T08:29:45Z")
Well, OK, that’s your opinion. He did spend 46 days in jail, was required to get help for his mental problems and drug use, and I’m pretty sure he’s lost his pilot license and thus his career. So it’s not like there were no consequences at all. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/230 "2025-11-18T21:44:11Z")
I wonder how the people on that plane feel about this result. Maybe off-duty pilots riding shotgun should be just as rigorously screened as the actual flight crew for abused substances, before they are allowed onto the plane. Has that changed at all? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/231 "2025-11-18T21:52:39Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I wonder how the people on that plane feel about this result. That’s not the greatest of standards. That’s why we have legal systems at all. Imperfect though they may be at times, they are typically better than the justice of an angry mob. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/232 "2025-11-18T22:16:34Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Maybe off-duty pilots riding shotgun should be just as rigorously screened as the actual flight crew for abused substances, before they are allowed onto the plane. Has that changed at all? Pilots who are allowed cockpit access are in a security program and all are subject to the same standard when it comes to alcohol / substances. Cockpit jumpseat occupants are considered part of the crew for this purpose. The enforcement is normally in the form of random testing. But if a pilot shows up to the aircraft and there is any suspicion of their impairment it triggers another process. What’s interesting is that the off duty pilot who is the subject of this thread boarded the plane and apparently acted normal enough that nobody clocked him being under the influence of the mushrooms. As I said up-thread, this guy is already experiencing serious consequences. Piling on more punitive actions wouldn’t serve much purpose and could make the problem of pilots seeking help even worse. I’m glad he was not charged with attempted murder as was initially proposed. Let’s remember the guy walked out of the cockpit and asked a flight attendant to restrain him. He took responsibility immediately after the event and has been through a process. I think that’s sufficient for disciplining him and ensuring public safety. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/233 "2025-11-18T22:35:57Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Maybe off-duty pilots riding shotgun should be just as rigorously screened as the actual flight crew for abused substances, before they are allowed onto the plane. Has that changed at all? He was subject to the same screening: pass through TSA and don’t act wasted while doing so. I’m of two minds. Had I been the Captain that day there’s a better than 50/50 he’d have been dead long before landing. Where I sit today, and did upthread while still working, I think it’s far more important that we not drive other troubled crewmembers underground than that we vent our punishment spleen on this unfortunate fuck-up dude. None of that will un-risk the people who were on that flight and were not hurt. But it will absolutely positively increase the hazard on many future flights with pilots in mental distress. Greatest good for greatest number. Use your mind, not your spleen. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/234 "2025-11-18T22:44:38Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I disagree; he should have been sentenced to some prison time. Towards what end? To make sure that all the other commercial airline pilots know its not okay to try to deliberately crash the planes they’re flying? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/235 "2025-11-18T23:06:45Z")
And the fact that he immediately showed remorse, asking to be restrained, argues against, “he needs to learn a lesson”. He knew he was messed up. He still knows it. He’ll never fly again. What more do we need? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2025, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/236 "2025-11-18T23:54:02Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Maybe off-duty pilots riding shotgun should be just as rigorously screened as the actual flight crew for abused substances, before they are allowed onto the plane. Has that changed at all? The standard test is walking into the cockpit unassisted and not throwing up. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/237 "2025-11-19T00:06:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > He’ll never fly again. What more do we need? I’d think attempted mass murder tips the scales toward incarceration. “sorry I was on drugs” seems a bit weak. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/238 "2025-11-19T00:24:39Z")
I think he temporarily lost his mind. I don’t think he wanted to kill other people. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/239 "2025-11-19T00:24:40Z")
I don’t have any problem with this guy not getting prison time. What’s more bothersome is attribution of his behavior to depression and mushroom intake, when it seems like his mental health issues went well beyond those factors. > [@](#): > > Matt Johnson, PhD, an expert in psychedelic drugs and a Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, told CNN that it’s “highly unlikely” psilocybin would still be in Emerson’s system 48 hours after use, though he said the drug’s lingering effects — along with existing depression and lack of sleep — could have created “the perfect storm,” causing the pilot to feel as if he were in a dream. Straight depression\* doesn’t make one delusional (or murderous, as in [this case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525)). I can see cases like Emerson’s casting further stigma on acknowledging depression and getting help. Interesting (and disturbing) thought: since psychedelics are getting more attention and use in major depression, would people including airline supervisory personnel feel comfortable with someone getting that type of treatment and subsequently returning to flying? From the few studies I’ve seen, hallucinatory effects wear off before long and patients are monitored until those symptoms dissipate. But you wouldn’t want your pilot to have a flashback and decide that the rest of the crew and passengers are cannibalistic alien tomatoes who must be destroyed. \*depression is often a component, if a minor one, in various mental health disorders. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/240 "2025-11-19T01:05:21Z")
Good bet the FAA who has the final word, will not be approving psychedelics as treatments for depression in pilots any time soon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966.md?page=13)