# Off-duty pilot tries to shut down the engines mid-flight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 23, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966 "2023-10-23T17:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/261 "2025-11-19T23:16:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not glossing over he almost killed a plane full of people. Nobody else is either. But the issue here is that _the hallucinating pilot did not **intend** to kill, or attempt to kill, or harm in any way, that plane full of people_. No intent, no crime of murder (or attempted murder). > [@Magiver](#): > > For negligence? Doesn’t matter. And nobody here is saying that the hallucinating pilot **shouldn’t** be punished for negligence, or some other charge appropriate to what he actually did. You’re the one who keeps incorrectly claiming that his punishment should somehow reflect the initial and subsequently dropped charges of _attempted murder_, which he **didn’t** do. (Fiscal “conservatives”, lol. They complain so hard about alleged government waste and inefficiency, except in the (generally far more numerous) cases where the government is wasting money by imposing lengthy prison sentences on perpetrators who could be just as effectively and far more cheaply kept from recidivism in some other way. Sure, let’s pretend that this irresponsibly substance-abusing and subsequently dangerously hallucinating pilot was actually attempting **murder** , just so we have an excuse to punish him harder and more expensively!) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/262 "2025-11-19T23:24:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > just so we have an excuse to punish him harder and more expensively He would need to be punished first in order to punish him harder. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/263 "2025-11-19T23:26:28Z")
Permanent loss of one’s chosen career isn’t a punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/264 "2025-11-19T23:28:32Z")
Is that how the legal system works now? As for his chosen career he chose to take hallucinogenic drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/265 "2025-11-19T23:30:43Z")
…which resulted in his loss of that career. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/266 "2025-11-19T23:35:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He would need to be punished first in order to punish him harder. I repeat: Nobody here is saying that the pilot in question shouldn’t be punished for whatever crime(s) he is found by the courts to have actually committed. What you seem unable or unwilling to recognize is that attempted murder is not one of the crimes that the pilot stands accused of committing (which is why the initial attempted-murder charges were dropped), and that therefore punishment standards for attempted murder do not apply in this case. Which is why [you were completely mistaken when you opined](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/237) > [@Magiver](#): > > I’d think attempted mass murder tips the scales toward incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/267 "2025-11-19T23:40:49Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > …which resulted in his loss of that career. which shouldn’t be considered by the court. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/268 "2025-11-19T23:46:12Z")
I don’t think it was, was it? He has two separate sets of consequences. Procedural, with the loss of his credentials to fly, and legal. Those are separate, though proceeding from the same initial act. (I suppose you could count the physical effects of the drug as another separate set of consequences). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2025, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/269 "2025-11-19T23:48:51Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t think it was, was it? It’s being weighed in the court of public opinion in this thread. Losing his job should be punishment enough. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/270 "2025-11-20T00:05:14Z")
I don’t think the court of public opinion has the power to impose ANY real consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2025, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/271 "2025-11-20T00:07:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s being weighed in the court of public opinion in this thread. Losing his job should be punishment enough. Who in this thread is saying that “Losing his job should be punishment enough”? It’s been noted that the loss of his pilot’s license is a punishment, but I’m not seeing anybody suggesting that it was unjust to try and convict him for the crime(s) he **actually committed**. And indeed, as the linked article describes, the pilot **has** been punished by the legal system for what he did: > [@](#): > > U.S. District Court Judge Amy Baggio in Portland, Oregon, sentenced Joseph Emerson to time served and three years’ supervised release […] > > Emerson, of Pleasant Hill, California, had pleaded guilty or no-contest to all charges in September as part of agreements with prosecutors. > > He was charged in federal court with interfering with a flight crew. A state indictment in Oregon separately charged him with 83 counts of endangering another person and one count of endangering an aircraft. > > A state court sentenced him to 50 days in jail, with credit for time served, plus five years of probation, 664 hours of community service — half of which he can serve at his own [pilot health nonprofit](https://www.clearskiesaheadnonprofit.org/) — and over $60,000 in restitution, nearly all of it to Alaska Air Group. His sentence included rules over drugs, alcohol and mental health treatment, as well as avoiding aircraft. > > His attorneys argued before federal sentencing that the “robust” state prosecution “resulted in substantial punishment.” I don’t see anybody here objecting in any way to those punishments being imposed on Emerson, in addition to the termination of his career. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2025, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/272 "2025-11-20T00:13:26Z")
The fact he is launching a new career promoting the health of pilots to, one hopes, help prevent someone else making the mistakes he did should be in his favor. He may be of more benefit to society overall doing that work than sitting in a jail cell. Maybe. I couldn’t prove it either way but find it food for thought. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/273 "2025-11-20T00:28:21Z")
I agree, it is food for thought. But that holds true for every drunk that almost kills someone. Many people “see the light” in prison too. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2025, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/274 "2025-11-20T04:44:23Z")
If it were as easy to prevent people from driving as it is to prevent them from flying, i wouldn’t want to imprison drink drivers, either. I absolutely would prevent them from driving, though. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2025, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/275 "2025-11-20T09:31:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I agree, it is food for thought. But that holds true for every drunk that almost kills someone. No, it doesn’t. It would only apply to folks who have been convicted of such a crime launching a company to promote sober flying and encourage drivers to seek help BEFORE they break the law. That is only a tiny minority of such drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/276 "2025-11-22T00:15:52Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I absolutely would prevent them from driving, though. Serious question, how do you stop someone from driving? ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/277 "2025-11-22T00:18:26Z")
puzzlegal’s post had 2 sentences. Maybe you should have a look at the first one. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/278 "2025-11-22T00:20:31Z")
I see repeat drunk drivers in the news all the time. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/279 "2025-11-22T00:22:42Z")
It starts “If it were…”. I.e an acknowledgement that this is **not** the case, however then elaborating on a hypothetical based on if it **were** the case. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966/280 "2025-11-22T00:24:41Z")
ETA: ninja’ed Her point was that if it was possible to prevent convicted drunks from operating cars there would be no rationale to imprison them. I can totally see that in 50 years. The car knows how to recognize who you are and if you’re not on the car’s authorized list of drivers, it refuses to go. Solve the drunk repeat offender problem and the auto theft problem all at once. And the fugitive from the law problem. But we’re not there yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/off-duty-pilot-tries-to-shut-down-the-engines-mid-flight/991966.md?page=15)