No kidding. If that were the line, then every cheeseburger would constitute abuse.
Having a doctor that is severely obese give health advice is sometimes hard to swallow. But it’s their job, and facts are facts.
My doc is chubby too; she’s totally built for comfort not speed.
Which is actually beneficial in a way because she knows from her expertise how to eat properly and from her personal experience how difficult that is. Which gives all of her advice on any behavioral health topic a certain groundedness.
It clear he was very suicidal or hallucinating really badly.
It sad he is going to jail and not psychiatric hospital but that is way things are in the US.
I’m hoping the prosecutor will downgrade the charges. There’s a standard charge they use for disruptive passengers.
interference with flight crew members and attendants, a crime that carries a statutory maximum sentence of 20 years in federal prison
That would be severe enough. They know now this guy wasn’t a terrorist. His career is ruined and most likely his marriage. They need to consider his state of mind.
I think it might be more appropriate to charge him with attempted murder, since that accurately represents his actions, but adjust the sentence. I guess that would depend how much flexibility there is in sentencing.
I don’t think someone who knowingly takes mind-altering drugs under these circumstances and then tries to kill people should be allowed to use the fact that they made the choice to take mind-altering drugs as mitigation. We need deterrence to operate at all stages of the decision-making process.
It’s the usual problem of justice.
He had no ill intent, so it seems unfair to punish him.
He did cause harm to other people (though fortunately not injury), so it seems unfair to let him off scot-free.
He clearly has mental health issues, which should be addressed productively.
The number of people who believe that recreational drugs can be used without harm is clearly greater than the number of people who can use recreational drugs without harm, so a disincentive / deterrent seems like a good idea.
My idea of justice here is:
From the point of view of the individual, that he is barred from holding a pilot’s licence, and possibly also driver’s licence. He is also connected with resources to help him retrain for another job, and to deal with the current issues and process these changes.
From the point of view of the victims (passengers & crew; airline), he spend a year or so in jail and have a token portion of his wages garnished for ten years or so to go to the airline.
We’ll see what actually happens.
Attempted murder normally needs a clear intention to kill. Given his mental state, it may be difficult for the prosecution to prove that intention beyond a reasonable doubt. His actions were very dangerous, but did he have the intent to kill everyone on that plane?
From the details provided in the NYT article I’d say absolutely not. He was delusional, not homicidal or even suicidal. After leaving the cockpit he asked to be restrained. I’m guessing he’s beyond mortified by what he did.
Again, I’m not arguing for zero consequences. I just think charging him with attempted murder is completely out of proportion with what occurred.
I’ve been very curious, but I haven’t seen anywhere whether he has articulated what his intent was in pulling those levers.
We have no problem punishing people for drunk or reckless driving, even when they don’t hurt anybody else. Outcomes matter, but so does intent (or lack thereof, e.g. a disregard for the safety of others).
The NYT article linked in post #172 has his side of the story. Essentially, he thought he was trapped in a nightmare and that this was the only way to wake up.
Yes, but it depends as well on the nature of the proposed charge. Murder and attempt murder require proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused intended to kill.
Impaired driving doesn’t have that level of intent. It’s sufficient to prove that the accused drove while impaired.
As @Llama_Llogophile says, it’s not an argument that the guy gets off scot-free; just that attempt murder seems to be an inappropriate charge on the facts of this case.
I agree it wasn’t murder or attempted murder, since he believed he was dreaming. But it wasn’t the equivalent of drunk driving, either. A drunk driver is at least trying to get the car down the road; this guy was the equivalent of a drunk passenger reaching over and trying to crash the car.
Yes, I know—but drunk or reckless driving is a behaviour likely to be repeated without intervention, while attempted murder of 83 people by psychotic episode while travelling in the cockpit is probably not something this individual would do again.
Nor is it something we have a need to make a “deterrence” statement about socially. Nobody gets into that situation on purpose. Lots of people drive drunk on purpose.
He is also facing Federal charges. Emerson will be tangled up in courts for awhile.
I would speculate the FAA is investigating him too. He won’t fly anything again.
Link https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/us/oregon-indictment-off-duty-pilot-engine-incident/index.html
That’s probably about the minimum an honest prosecutor could come up with.
Didn’t mean to drop that without any context. It’s a Mentour Pilot video on this flight.
As I posted in the General Aviation thread, this is a terrific Mentour Pilot production (yet again). Thanks for posting.