# Officer Nero Not Guilty On All Charges **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505 "2016-05-24T00:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/41 "2016-06-23T23:06:11Z")
> [@computergeek](#): > > It feels like at the very least there should have been some negligence found. I can see a big civil suit and a big money payout, as Baltimore has paid out millions over the years for police misconduct. Hopefully the city will continue to make changes that they started after Gray’s death The settlement was already made. From The New York Times, “The family of Freddie Gray . . . reached a $6.4 million settlement with the city”. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/42 "2016-06-24T10:52:17Z")
Justice prevailed…black bodies in the streets…glurge glurge glurge ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/43 "2016-06-24T23:00:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The settlement was already made. From The New York Times, “The family of Freddie Gray . . . reached a $6.4 million settlement with the city”. Duh, I forgot that happened last year ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/44 "2016-06-25T01:09:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Finally, as to the reckless endangerment, which was the only charge I thought had any basis in fact here to begin with, the judge found that a reasonable police officer would not have believed it necessary to question a superior officer as to whether Gray was belted in, or to climb in after the senior officer left to check. Therefore, it could not be “reckless” to have failed to do so. My issue with this line is where does responsibility land? Who is LEGALLY responsible to see to it that he was belted in? In other words, if not this officer who was negligent? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/45 "2016-06-25T05:02:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My issue with this line is where does responsibility land? Who is LEGALLY responsible to see to it that he was belted in? > > In other words, if not this officer who was negligent? Are you asking about criminal negligence? ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/46 "2016-06-26T16:02:24Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The other prisoner was interviewed by Don Lemon of CNN. He said he does not believe that Gray injured himself because he did not think it would be possible to kill yourself in a paddy wagon. However, he did say that he heard "“a little banging, like someone was over there banging their head or something.” > That seems to me that Gray did not have a broken neck at the time since it would be impossible for him to bang his head with a broken neck. > There were police leaks that claim the other prisoner initially told police he heard Gray trying to injure himself but the other prisoner has denied that. > Since Gray had already been making such a ruckus that police twice pulled the van over and put him in restraints, it makes since to me that he kept trying to protest after being restrained and accidentally hit his head in such a way that broke his neck and that is what the other prisoner heard. I don’t think we were ever told what he was arrested for or what happened before somebody’s cell phone showed him being hauled out the door to the police van by 2 cops with something obviously already wrong with him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/47 "2016-06-26T16:30:49Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > I don’t think we were ever told what he was arrested for [TLDR version;](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray#Arrest_and_death) a bike patrol was making its rounds, one of the officers made eye contact with Gray, and Gray then proceeded to flee unprovoked. The officers subsequently gave chase and apprehended him. He was charged at the time with carrying an illegal switchblade; whether or not the knife he was in possession of at the time of his arrest was legal or not has been disputed, and will likely never be adjudicated on account of his death. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/48 "2016-06-27T15:15:37Z")
Thanks for that – but watching the video there is something obviously wrong with him before they put him in the van. Did the cops do that to him or has he just lost his mind? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/49 "2016-06-27T16:50:30Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > Thanks for that – but watching the video there is something obviously wrong with him before they put him in the van. Did the cops do that to him or has he just lost his mind? Could be either, or both. Gray had a long criminal record, mostly for drugs (other than marijuana), and had five active cases against him at the time of his death. He tested positive for opiates and marijuana upon being admitted to the hospital. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/50 "2016-06-27T23:05:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My issue with this line is where does responsibility land? Who is LEGALLY responsible to see to it that he was belted in? > > In other words, if not this officer who was negligent? Several points: 1. Just because bad shit happens doesn’t mean that there is someone that needs a finger pointed at them. Sometimes it is not really anyone’s fault. 2. We are talking about a seat belt here, right? I get that in the last 30 or so years not wearing a seat belt is about as fashionable as drinking a beer while driving, but let’s not lose perspective. Would you think that a person should be charged with murder for not buckling a kid in a car seat properly or failing to buckle up an elderly passenger with dementia? Even if he didn’t buckle up Gray and was required to do so, it should be a traffic infraction. 3. The guidelines said that it was in the discretion of the officer whether or not to buckle in a prisoner. If a guy is being combative, I don’t see the need for an officer to risk being spit at, bit, or headbutted while buckling a guy in. It sounds like Gray acted like a dick every time he got arrested (which was many). In short, just comply with a police officer’s directive. (Not consent, but comply). If something is illegal about the action, talk to a lawyer after posting bond. I’ve seen too many hot heads want to duke it out with police. That never works out. ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/51 "2016-06-28T01:35:15Z")
Years ago here in Colorado, a 7 yo boy died from apparent abuse. The parents were accused and sent to separate trials. In the husbands trial, he accused his wife, and was found not guilty (I don’t remember whether it was judge only or jury) and walked free. In the wife’s trial, she accused her husband, and was found not guilty and also walked free. I felt so sorry for the boy who died, but apparently was not killed by anyone. All of these police officer trials, like in the Freddie Gray case and very similar. Yes, your honor, Freddie died while he was in my custody, but he was not my responsibility because I was not the arresting officer. So, Freddie died, but no one was at all responsible. Maybe he committed suicide. I am really getting tired of people getting free on technicalities. Bob ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/52 "2016-06-28T02:15:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Several points: > > 1. Just because bad shit happens doesn’t mean that there is someone that needs a finger pointed at them. Sometimes it is not really anyone’s fault. > > 2. We are talking about a seat belt here, right? I get that in the last 30 or so years not wearing a seat belt is about as fashionable as drinking a beer while driving, but let’s not lose perspective. Would you think that a person should be charged with murder for not buckling a kid in a car seat properly or failing to buckle up an elderly passenger with dementia? Even if he didn’t buckle up Gray and was required to do so, it should be a traffic infraction. > > 3. The guidelines said that it was in the discretion of the officer whether or not to buckle in a prisoner. If a guy is being combative, I don’t see the need for an officer to risk being spit at, bit, or headbutted while buckling a guy in. It sounds like Gray acted like a dick every time he got arrested (which was many). > > In short, just comply with a police officer’s directive. (Not consent, but comply). If something is illegal about the action, talk to a lawyer after posting bond. I’ve seen too many hot heads want to duke it out with police. That never works out. A guy did die. Policemen do get paid to save people, prevent crimes, and be spit at, bitten and head butted. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/53 "2016-06-28T02:54:45Z")
> [@urban1a](#): > > All of these police officer trials, like in the Freddie Gray case and very similar. Yes, your honor, Freddie died while he was in my custody, but he was not my responsibility because I was not the arresting officer. So, Freddie died, but no one was at all responsible. Maybe he committed suicide. I am really getting tired of people getting free on technicalities. > > Bob if, as the other person arrested testified, he thrashed about then he brought about his own death. While not suicide it’s relevant that he was instrumental in his death. We had a kid kick out the back window of a cruiser and escape onto a bridge and then proceeded to jump to his death. We can either hog tie people under arrest or treat them with dignity. At some point people need to take responsibility for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/54 "2016-06-28T09:02:47Z")
> [@urban1a](#): > > Years ago here in Colorado, a 7 yo boy died from apparent abuse. The parents were accused and sent to separate trials. In the husbands trial, he accused his wife, and was found not guilty (I don’t remember whether it was judge only or jury) and walked free. In the wife’s trial, she accused her husband, and was found not guilty and also walked free. I felt so sorry for the boy who died, but apparently was not killed by anyone. This conclusion represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the criminal justice system on your part. In each case, the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the accused. That doesn’t mean that no one killed the child. It means that there were two possible suspects but not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt which one killed the child. Considered that way, how would you like the process to go? Perhaps you imagine that the husband’s trial would conclude, and the judge then simply informs the wife, “Bad news, ma’am. Your husband was acquitted, which means you are the only suspect left. I’ll give you a moment to prepare, and then the bailiff may fire when ready.” ---
**Author:** ![TipTapTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TipTapTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TipTapTwo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/55 "2016-06-29T05:39:46Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] In each case, the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of the accused. That doesn’t mean that no one killed the child. It means that there were two possible suspects but not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt which one killed the child. [/QUOTE] Sorry, I know less than nothing about the law or criminal proceedings, so sorry in advance for my inarticulate simple-minded question. In this, or other similar cases, of people getting separate trials instead of being tried as a unit (really? separate trials for each parent rather than both together over the death of their kid?); is there a reason why, upon not finding either of them guilty enough for a conviction, the two parents could not then both be charged again as one new, whole, “parental entity?” And then be found properly (jointly) guilty of the kid’s death? I dunno, I just have some vague ideas about hitman/mafia/cartel chains of command, and the difference between going after specific people vs the businesses as a whole during the financial crisis. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/56 "2016-06-29T14:47:24Z")
> [@TipTapTwo](#): > > is there a reason why, upon not finding either of them guilty enough for a conviction, the two parents could not then both be charged again as one new, whole, “parental entity?” And then be found properly (jointly) guilty of the kid’s death? Double jeopardy, I think. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/57 "2016-06-29T17:26:19Z")
> [@TipTapTwo](#): > > … is there a reason why, upon not finding either of them guilty enough for a conviction, the two parents could not then both be charged again as one new, whole, “parental entity?” And then be found properly (jointly) guilty of the kid’s death? Yes, there is a reason. You can’t condemn an innocent person just to ensure you get the guilty one. Unless you have firm evidence that both parents were responsible then you can’t throw them both in prison. That would be the grossest of injustices. As the maxim has it, “Better ten guilty people go free than one innocent person suffer.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/58 "2016-06-29T19:26:45Z")
> [@TipTapTwo](#): > > Sorry, I know less than nothing about the law or criminal proceedings, so sorry in advance for my inarticulate simple-minded question. > > In this, or other similar cases, of people getting separate trials instead of being tried as a unit (really? separate trials for each parent rather than both together over the death of their kid?); is there a reason why, upon not finding either of them guilty enough for a conviction, the two parents could not then both be charged again as one new, whole, “parental entity?” And then be found properly (jointly) guilty of the kid’s death? When two or more people are charged with participating in contemporaneous and related acts or occurrences or in a series of acts or occurrences that constitute crimes, the general rule is that they are tried together – that is, one jury hears the case and delivers separate verdicts for each of the accused. However, this general rule can be overcome by showing that the process would constitute prejudice to one of the defendants. Here’s an example: suppose that one of the two confessed to police. The other denies guilt. Normally, an out-of-court confession is admissible against a dependent even though it’s hearsay, because an exception to the hearsay rule allows the court to accept such an admission of guilt. But it’s obviously unfair to tell Rhino that Chop-Chop confessed that they both robbed the liquor store, and so Chop-Chop has waived Rhino’s right against self-incrimination. There ways to solve that without severing the trials, necessarily – Chop-Chop’s confession could be redacted to include only him. But if that won’t work, it may be that Rhino’s right to a fair trial outweighs the state’s interest in a single, joint trial. > [@](#): > > I dunno, I just have some vague ideas about hitman/mafia/cartel chains of command, and the difference between going after specific people vs the businesses as a whole during the financial crisis. A business has an independent legal existence and can be convicted of a crimes, to be sure. But a husband and wife do not also form a third legal joint entity. They may be tried together, but each one’s guilt must be established by the finder of fact. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/59 "2016-07-18T15:07:04Z")
Update: Lt. Brian Rice not guilty of involuntary manslaughter, reckless endangerment and misconduct in office. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505/60 "2016-07-18T15:46:56Z")
Was he charged with anything else; that is, was he convicted of anything? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officer-nero-not-guilty-on-all-charges/755505.md?page=4)