# Official 2011 NFL Football Thread - Preseason Edition **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 21, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920 "2011-07-21T23:58:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/462 "2011-08-17T20:37:21Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > He got tagged for a [pretty nasty one on Cutler](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6vxVVXWUM) last season too. This one’s a bit more subjective than those two, but in my eyes (biased of course) he coiled up that right arm and launched it at the back of his head. “Subjective” is, apparently, an understatement. The first time you see it at full speed, I admit, it looks like he gave him a punch in the back. But the subsequent replays pretty clearly show Suh pushed, with both hands, poor Jay over on the back. It wasn’t a forearm shiver, it wasn’t “launched at his head”, it wasn’t unnecessary roughness, Suh simply pushed Cutler in the back forcefully. I only needed to hear the bullshit Hochuli tried to spew in explaining (and then re-explaining later after he saw the replay that it was a “non football act” bullshit) to know he knew he fucked up too. Suh isn’t above being a jagoff on the field (just as Delhomme), but on that play, the Bears caught a break. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/463 "2011-08-17T21:51:27Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > “Subjective” is, apparently, an understatement. The first time you see it at full speed, I admit, it looks like he gave him a punch in the back. But the subsequent replays pretty clearly show Suh pushed, with both hands, poor Jay over on the back. It wasn’t a forearm shiver, it wasn’t “launched at his head”, it wasn’t unnecessary roughness, Suh simply pushed Cutler in the back forcefully. I only needed to hear the bullshit Hochuli tried to spew in explaining (and then re-explaining later after he saw the replay that it was a “non football act” bullshit) to know he knew he fucked up too. Suh isn’t above being a jagoff on the field (just as Delhomme), but on that play, the Bears caught a break. Do you ever dial it back at all? Of course it’s borderline and the announcers during the game in that link obviously agree with you. But the league reviewed it and fined him significantly. If you watch the replay you can see that Suh didn’t simply give a “two handed push” to the back. The right arm cocks right before the hit and launches forward while the left stays extended. It’s clearly intended to be a punch/forearm shiver. It hit Cutler in the back of the shoulders and not the head. I think he was aiming for the head and missed, but that’s something we will never know. Most importantly it was a hit on a QB, high and from behind, who was giving himself up. Whether he actually hits him in the head or whether it was a push or a punch isn’t really relevant, the refs on the field and the league office agreed that it was unnecessary. None of that really matters to the point here. You can argue all you want that the league is being pussified and that QBs are protected too much, you can argue that Suh was just doing what defenders are supposed to do. That’s fine and I might agree with you, however the league added this to his file and justified or not he’s developing a reputation that’s gonna work against him. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/464 "2011-08-17T22:04:29Z")
Oh thank Og, the 49ers signed Josh McCown instead of Duante Culpepper for the emergency-QB job. I don’t know or care about McCown’s ability, I just didn’t want any part of Culpepper. Just bringing him in for a workout ws an embarrasing mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/465 "2011-08-17T22:47:42Z")
Is it out of the realm of possibility that the NFL would want to protect the reputation of it’s referees in order to prevent undermining their authority (by agreeing with the call)? Hell, the league thought that Seahawks/Steelers Super Bowl was “well officiated” when even one of the refs in the game [admitted he botched call **s**](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5444048) that impacted the outcome of the game. Personally, all the evidence about the overreaction to Suh’s hit I need is in Hochuli’s bogus, stammering, impromptu explanation and in Cutler himself. What QB ever gets hit in a questionable manner and does not get up and make an immediate appeal to the ref? Cutler doesn’t even react, because it wasn’t anything to react to. Completely bogus call. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Most importantly it was a hit on a QB, high and from behind, who was giving himself up. He was giving himself up? Pure homerism. Indefensible nonsense. There isn’t even a hint of a slide. It was a vicious hit with malicious intent, but the hit itself was legal and you can’t penalize intent. It looked worse than it was and the refs got duped by the appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/466 "2011-08-18T00:08:33Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > He was giving himself up? Pure homerism. Indefensible nonsense. There isn’t even a hint of a slide. It was a vicious hit with malicious intent, but the hit itself was legal and you can’t penalize intent. It looked worse than it was and the refs got duped by the appearance. You’re right. I was going from memory on that one, after rewatching the clip he wasn’t giving himself up. I disagree with you regarding intent though. I think you can and the league has shown itself willing to penalize intent. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/467 "2011-08-18T00:11:25Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Oh, my bad. No, I was talking more about the Dalton one. The Delhomme incident was a lot less defensible. You just can’t go after the head in today’s NFL. > > With Dalton, it looked like he was going for the shoulders. Yeah, the Dalton one is a bit more ambiguous, but you’d think he would have learned something after doing pretty much the same thing to Delhomme. Saw a bit about him on NFL Network tonight and he says didn’t do anything wrong and he’s not going to change the way he plays. I say fine him a million dollars next time he does it if he’s not going to play within the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/468 "2011-08-18T00:44:57Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Do you ever dial it back at all? Sure, when you’re not wrong, I can dial it all the way back. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/469 "2011-08-18T01:06:31Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Sure, when you’re not wrong, I can dial it all the way back. Where was I wrong? Suh DID get penalized and fined for that hit. In my OPINION (which I specifically categorized as biased) Suh was targeting the back of his head. He IS developing a reputation. I’m not seeing where I was wrong there. I swear, you see the words “Bears” or “Cutler” and you practically dislocate a hip. If I said that the sky was blue you’d rush in to contradict me, especially if I somehow mentioned Cutler’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/470 "2011-08-18T01:15:59Z")
Not seeing anything wrong with the hit on Cutler. So he pushed him really hard. _shrug_ It’s football. > [@garygnu](#): > > Oh thank Og, the 49ers signed Josh McCown instead of Duante Culpepper for the emergency-QB job. I don’t know or care about McCown’s ability, I just didn’t want any part of Culpepper. Just bringing him in for a workout ws an embarrasing mistake. Have you seen your #1 and #2 quarterbacks, guy? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/471 "2011-08-18T01:29:43Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Where was I wrong? Suh DID get penalized and fined for that hit. In my OPINION (which I specifically categorized as biased) Suh was targeting the back of his head. He IS developing a reputation. I’m not seeing where I was wrong there. Your opinion is wrong. Suh wasn’t targeting Cutlers’ head, if he was, he would have hit it. Suh did what he intended to do, push Cutler down hard. I’m not sure why my disagreeing with you is getting you so upset, but if you could get off the cross, we could use the wood. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/472 "2011-08-18T06:18:15Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I disagree with you regarding intent though. I think you can and the league has shown itself willing to penalize intent. You’re right. I meant in the context of a game. You can’t penalize a player because he tried to make a dirty hit, and I believe Suh tried and failed. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/473 "2011-08-18T15:04:21Z")
Huh, Terrelle Pryor bailed on OSU because he had a five game suspension. So as he throws them under a bus so he can get into the supplemental draft, the NFL said he could…but would have to serve a [five game suspension](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/08/18/terrelle.pryor.supplemental.draft.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/474 "2011-08-18T15:22:00Z")
Well, that’s pretty fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/475 "2011-08-18T15:23:35Z")
Isn’t the NFL overreaching here? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/476 "2011-08-18T15:30:01Z")
Huh. Well, I guess the NFL wants to make nice with the farm league known as college football, so I suppose this has some PR value - don’t screw your school over, or you can’t just bail to the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/477 "2011-08-18T15:38:22Z")
What is he actually being penalized for? The NFL doesn’t have a rule that says violations of NCAA rules are automatically violations of NFL rules. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/478 "2011-08-18T15:51:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What is he actually being penalized for? The NFL doesn’t have a rule that says violations of NCAA rules are automatically violations of NFL rules. I guess its kinda like you getting a DUI in Virginia and then moving to California before your sentencing. Eventually California gets a letter from Virginia telling them that they’ve suspended your license and California going on ahead and enforcing the ruling from Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/479 "2011-08-18T16:06:44Z")
Emperor Goodell strikes again. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/480 "2011-08-18T16:24:33Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I guess its kinda like you getting a DUI in Virginia and then moving to California before your sentencing. Eventually California gets a letter from Virginia telling them that they’ve suspended your license and California going on ahead and enforcing the ruling from Virginia. Yeah, but that’s because DUI is also illegal in California. Selling memorabilia is not against the NFL’s code of conduct. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920/481 "2011-08-18T17:12:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yeah, but that’s because DUI is also illegal in California. Selling memorabilia is not against the NFL’s code of conduct. Oh I know. I was just trying to come up with something that made some sort of sense. I don’t like the direction this is heading in. So what, are they going to retroactively punish Pete Carrol now too? Fair’s fair…right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-2011-nfl-football-thread-preseason-edition/589920.md?page=25)