# Official Big 12 Implosion/Expansion Thread (and it's goodbye to a&m?) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 8, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578 "2011-09-08T03:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/41 "2011-09-09T20:20:40Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t really understand why Texas and the Oklahomas are considering the Pac10. Well, I’m sure there it’s because of money and an easier path to the BCS. But realistically, those three schools are much culturally and geographically closer to the SEC. You’ve gotta wonder why they don’t just make it an even 16 for the SEC. From what I’ve read they don’t consider themselves closer to the SEC from an institutional perspective - Texas and Oklahoma, as academic institutions, feel closer to the Pac. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/42 "2011-09-09T21:26:53Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I can’t “own” it because I am an unbiased Washington fan enjoying the chaos and analysis of the chaos. It’s entertaining. That’s cool. I mean, Arky should own their culpability in breaking up the SWC. Not that I’ve ever heard an Arky fan deny this - “we got off the sinking ship,” etc. > [@](#): > > It’s true, it’s not all Texas’ fault - I didn’t realize it until I read articles from the past, before everything started falling apart. > > Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska and Texas A&M all wanted unequal revenue sharing for as long as the Big12 has existed - they were the ones getting the most money. And in fairness, that makes sense, IMO. The Big 12 schools are all fine academically, I’m sure - but we can’t deny there are significant disparities between Iowa State’s athletic budget and Texas’. (Doesn’t always matter on the field; they beat us last year.) It could be argued that the schools with less prominent athletic programs are benefiting immensely from their association with the more prominent schools, including being part of an automatic qualifying conference. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/43 "2011-09-12T03:41:15Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Without getting into “who was thinking about it first”, here’s a rough sequence of events: > > 1987: SMU gets the death penalty… I don’t get how this fits in. Flesh it out? (I’m probably missing something totally obvious.) ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/44 "2011-09-12T16:46:54Z")
Part of SMU’s “Death Penalty” was no road games for the '87 season. (may not have right season, but that was the penalty) ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/45 "2011-09-13T21:57:46Z")
SportsPickle’s Flowchart: [Should my school change conferences](http://www.sportspickle.com/opinion/7931/flowchart-should-my-school-change-conferences)? ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/46 "2011-09-13T22:03:37Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Part of SMU’s “Death Penalty” was no road games for the '87 season. (may not have right season, but that was the penalty) SMU’s 1987 season was canceled by the NCAA, and the school chose to cancel the 1988 season. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference), the league’s TV revenues took a hit when SMU got the death penalty. It’s shocking to learn that the breakup was spurred by financial motives. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/47 "2011-09-14T17:17:34Z")
I’m sure the old SWC was already on somewhat shaky ground prior to SMU’s death penalty given that the geographic scope of the conference was simply Texas and Arkansas. Losing SMU was a catalyst for Texas, A&M and Arkansas to find a better home long-term. Baylor & Texas Tech came along as part of the package deal to form the Big XII because they had strong supporters in Texas state government… TCU, Rice, et. al., not so much. Don’t forget SMU was a major college team back then, nowadays there isn’t much difference between SMU and UTEP. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/48 "2011-09-14T19:48:29Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > SMU’s 1987 season was canceled by the NCAA, and the school chose to cancel the 1988 season. > > According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Conference), the league’s TV revenues took a hit when SMU got the death penalty. It’s shocking to learn that the breakup was spurred by financial motives. If memory serves, SMU wasn’t allowed on TV at all during 1986 either. Not being able to televise one team means that you can’t televise the opponent either, which doesn’t make the opposing team any too happy. I think the 1986 SMU/Notre Dame game was the only Notre Dame game since Knute Rockne that wasn’t televised. (OK, maybe after that) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/49 "2011-09-19T00:30:43Z")
The Austin Statesman is now reporting that a deal is in the works to take Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Ok State into a revised PAC-16. Details [here](http://texas.scout.com/2/1108008.html). In brief: - 4 four team pods. The Big12 schools would be a pod. - You play your pod every year. You play 6 other teams for a 9 game schedule. - The two best records play for the title. These could both be in the same pod. - Longhorn Network stays. UT keeps the revenue unless it’s too small (?) at which point the LN money gets piled in with the rest and divided by 16. As near as I can tell, this just treats the LN the same as any other third-tier game rights for the schools. - PAC-16 will supply content for the LN (whether or not they get compensated for that isn’t mentioned). It should be noted that none of this is signed and delivered yet. It’ll be interesting to see how USC/UCLA/etc react to some of these terms. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/50 "2011-09-19T00:56:56Z")
Speculation: The other pods are the California Pod, the Pacific NW Pod, and the Desert/Mountain Pod. There must be some snarky nicknames (and Un-PC) for these pods. I actually think this is best format for a 16 team conference. Can work the same for CBB as well. Home and Home within your pod, and one game against the other teams. 18 game schedule. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/51 "2011-09-19T03:06:34Z")
Pods? Thank god someone has come up with something almost as stupid as Legends and Leader. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/52 "2011-09-19T04:43:23Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > - 4 four team pods. The Big12 schools would be a pod. > - You play your pod every year. You play 6 other teams for a 9 game schedule. This sounds strange, but I actually saw a graphic where it worked surprisingly well. “Best record wins” is perfect, although I wonder what the tie breakers are going to be. Record against common opponents? > [@](#): > > - Longhorn Network stays. UT keeps the revenue unless it’s too small (?) at which point the LN money gets piled in with the rest and divided by 16. As near as I can tell, this just treats the LN the same as any other third-tier game rights for the schools. > - PAC-16 will supply content for the LN (whether or not they get compensated for that isn’t mentioned). This is what I’m worried about. We saw how well sucking up to Texas worked out for the Big XII. I really hope the devil is in the details here. With that being said, Larry Scott has been a man possessed for us so far so I have no trouble giving him the benefit of the doubt. Texas coming to Pullman for the first game after the stadium renovation would be amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/53 "2011-09-19T20:57:34Z")
For a 16-team league, I think pods might work pretty well. You still won’t see a good number of other teams in your conference very much (isn’t playing the other members a primary reason for a conference in the first place?), but it doesn’t look quite as bad as two 8-team divisions … which is basically two conferences under one roof. Still don’t like it, but this is the most reasonable way I’ve seen to make a schedule work. The tiebreakers must go on for pages and pages, though. If this is where college football is going, I can see a lot of schools having a great deal of remorse in 5-10 years. Then maybe some of these superconferences will start breaking up again. Remember, the WAC was 16 teams for a while, and they couldn’t make that work. Every league has a top half and a bottom half. When a Big Cheese from the Big 12 or Big East comes rolling into to join a conference, only to find themselves in the bottom half (A&M, I’m looking at you) … well, they probably won’t like that too much. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/54 "2011-09-19T21:09:09Z")
For a point of reference, Teams like the Packers and the Redskins are in the same “Conference” but they are not guaranteed to play each other for years and years, or they could play nearly every year. Just depends on the teams do the prior year. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/55 "2011-09-19T22:39:00Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > …The tiebreakers must go on for pages and pages, though. Addendum to Pac 16 Tie Breaker Rules for Conference Champion Section XVII Paragraph B …If a tie still exists after the application of rules 1 through 427, the next applicable tie breaker will be based on cheerleader cup sizes. After disallowing all non-eligible cheerleaders, the team with the greatest sum of cheerleader cup sizes measured in inches and rounded to the nearest quarter inch, will be considered the Pac 16 Champion. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/56 "2011-09-20T03:12:08Z")
I’ll volunteer to help in determining the 428th rule, and just to be sure, we should probably measure twice. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/57 "2011-09-20T15:43:06Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > For a point of reference, Teams like the Packers and the Redskins are in the same “Conference” but they are not guaranteed to play each other for years and years, or they could play nearly every year. Just depends on the teams do the prior year. True, but they still play their division mates TWICE every season. The NFL scheduling model has practically no relationship to the college model. Well, except for the fact Dallas is in the NFC East - at least the NFL recognized the traditional rivalry with Washington (and Philly). That’s a big part of what chaps my hide about this whole realignment bullcrap. College football is all about tradition and rivalries. Well, it used to be, now it’s about money, but grant me the point. Fall traditions like Nebraska-Oklahoma, or Texas-Oklahoma, or Notre Dame-USC, or Ohio State-Michigan, or a million other yearly meetings … not seen as worthy anymore. Bob Stoops, OU’s coach, just blithely dismissed the possibility of losing the rivalry with Texas as no big deal. That game’s been played for over a century! Yes, I know, this has been going on for a while. We’ve already lost annual traditions like Pitt-Penn State and Nebraska-Oklahoma … but I say the game is poorer for that. If it’s just going to be a minor league for the NFL, then set it up and get the schools’ names off the teams. This crap is getting ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/58 "2011-09-20T15:57:58Z")
Another rivalry I’ll miss, and I’m sure I’m in a small minority, is Nebraska-Colorado. It hasn’t been much since about '01, but I’ve always liked it. And that Wisconsin tried to manufacturer a rivalry with Nebraska just because they have a few former Huskers as coaches and both wear red and white…no, that’s not a rivalry. Minnesota being the bug to Nebraska’s windshield in the past is more of a rivalry. I’m not sure if Iowa and Nebraska have a rivalry, but that’s the obvious one to me. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/59 "2011-09-20T16:57:00Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > True, but they still play their division mates TWICE every season. The NFL scheduling model has practically no relationship to the college model. Well, except for the fact Dallas is in the NFC East - at least the NFL recognized the traditional rivalry with Washington (and Philly) And all the Pac-16 teams would play their biggest rivals every year. The biggest rivalries will stay; there is no chance OU-Texas ends, no matter what anyone says for the cameras right now. What’s at stake are the lower-level rivaries: Texas-Rice, Baylor-A&M, Arkansas-Texas, Oklahoma-Nebraska, and most of all, the possibility of making interesting new out-of-conference matchups. 9 conference games plus 2 cupcakes plus one OOC rivalry game means no room for the Boise-Georgia, Ohio St-Miami, Texas-UCLA kinds of games. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578/60 "2011-09-20T17:13:07Z")
> [@furt](#): > > And all the Pac-16 teams would play their biggest rivals every year. The biggest rivalries will stay; there is no chance OU-Texas ends, no matter what anyone says for the cameras right now. > > What’s at stake are the lower-level rivaries: Texas-Rice, Baylor-A&M, Arkansas-Texas, Oklahoma-Nebraska, and most of all, the possibility of making interesting new out-of-conference matchups. 9 conference games plus 2 cupcakes plus one OOC rivalry game means no room for the Boise-Georgia, Ohio St-Miami, Texas-UCLA kinds of games. For the record, UT-A&M is a pretty big game as well, and will apparently likely go away. Certainly bigger than A&M-Baylor, which is only a rivalry from the Waco side. (can’t remember the last time A&M lost to Baylor) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-big-12-implosion-expansion-thread-and-its-goodbye-to-a-m/595578.md?page=4)