# Official corporate names in France **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 26, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648 "2015-02-26T06:53:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/1 "2015-02-26T06:53:24Z")
I know that in some countries, companies are required to indicate the type of business entity they are in their official legal entity name, like Apple Inc. or The Coca-Cola Company to take two famous US companies as examples. Do French companies have the same legal requirement? There is this one company I am researching and everything I could find alludes to them being an SAS, but this is not indicated in the company name. Other French companies I have worked with indicated they were a limited concern by having the appropriate denomination in their official name. I looked up other French corporations and pretty much all of them had their business entity type in their names, but these were major SAs, not smaller SARLs or SASs. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/2 "2015-02-26T17:03:48Z")
Are you sure it’s a requirement? You’re used to seeing that, but does “Company” mean a specific type of legal entity? Or “Inc.” - an American company can be incorporated in many different ways. You even incorporate your towns, but they don’t include Inc. in the name. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/3 "2015-02-26T17:08:37Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Are you sure it’s a requirement? You’re used to seeing that, but does “Company” mean a specific type of legal entity? Or “Inc.” - an American company can be incorporated in many different ways… Some companies may not be named according to the standard practices. It looks like Australia’s [Commonwealth Bank](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Bank#Privatisation_and_the_Colonial_merger_.281990.E2.80.932000.29) doesn’t end in the typical “Limited” that is used by most Australian limited liability corporations. This is most likely due to the fact that they have existed for long enough that they have been “grandfathered in” and not required to adhere to current naming practices for new corporations. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/4 "2015-02-26T17:11:16Z")
In Spain those wouldn’t even be considered part of the company’s name - they’re a separate item of information; if you change from an SL to an SA you can do it changing the company’s regulations, but not its name or its tax ID (you could change everything of course, but if you’re upgrading because you’re succesful, you wouldn’t want to). You put it in contracts because there that bit is required, as it provides a lot of essential information, but not in other usages; kind of like you need to put Tax ID in some documents, but not in adverts or in your website. I think it’s the same in France, but how is it actually in the US, is my question. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/5 "2015-02-26T17:11:20Z")
I have been told by multiple experts - corporate lawyers, financial advisers, etc. - that it is important to use a business’s full legal name in any formal agreements. Apple Inc., Foobar LLC, Jones & Jones LLP, etc. is a necessary name-form for legal declarations and contracts. I am not sure that “Coca-Cola Company” is such a form, but then, Coke is so old and unique in many ways that it may be grandfathered to an older form. It’s possible French law, which is considerably different from most Anglo-based law, does not require that formal addendum of company type as part of the name. But I don’t know. ETA: “Limited” is a term that means something specific in Commonwealth law (limited liability corporation or partnership) that is 'orribly watered down elsewhere, especially in the US, where it’s used for toni-ness alone. (So you have “The Limited, Inc.”) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/6 "2015-02-27T03:50:14Z")
They’re required to identify so that third parties are on notice that they are dealing with limited liability entities (in the event of a default or somesuch.) > [@Nava](#): > > Are you sure it’s a requirement? You’re used to seeing that, but does “Company” mean a specific type of legal entity? Or “Inc.” - an American company can be incorporated in many different ways. You even incorporate your towns, but they don’t include Inc. in the name. In Delaware, where Coca-Cola (and most major US corporations) is incorporated, the word “company” is one of the designators of a corporation. So in that particular case it does in fact refer to a corporation. Other acceptable terms: > [@](#): > > …“association,” “company,” “corporation,” “club,” “foundation,” “fund,” “incorporated,” “institute,” “society,” “union,” “syndicate,” or “limited,” (or abbreviations thereof, with or without punctuation), or words (or abbreviations thereof, with or without punctuation) of like import of foreign countries or jurisdictions (provided they are written in roman characters or letters)… > > Del. Code tit. 8, § 1-102 Coca-Cola would be exempted today anyway because it has assets in excess of $10M, which entitles a corporation to call itself whatever it wants, more or less. Most US states require something a bit more descriptive (Florida allows “corporation”, “incorporated”, or certain abbreviations.) ---
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/7 "2015-02-27T04:28:06Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I have been told by multiple experts - corporate lawyers, financial advisers, etc. - that it is important to use a business’s full legal name in any formal agreements. Apple Inc., Foobar LLC, Jones & Jones LLP, etc. is a necessary name-form for legal declarations and contracts. This. All legal entities I have done business with indicated their business type in their names, including French companies. The one I’m researching now doesn’t, and I’m wondering if this is an oversight or something not legally required. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/8 "2015-02-27T05:52:12Z")
Again, in what context are you seeing it? It’s highly likely that what you’re thinking of as their name is their trade name - not what would appear in a contract, but what they are known as. I’m self employed in Spain. My contracts, if performed under Spanish law, must include: - Legal name, as written in my National ID. - Tax ID. - Address of record. My full-form invoices must include: - Tax ID for both parties (the rest is actually optional, so no problem leaving my second lastname out when billing foreign clients). A short-form invoice (think store ticket) does not need to identify the payer but, so long as it identifies the items, it serves for purposes of tax records. Different contexts, different requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/9 "2015-02-27T06:31:06Z")
Thank you for the non sequitar that contributes nothing to this thread. I found a site that has a list of French company registers. It provides basic information for free, including the DBA name, but you have to pay to see the official and complete register:( ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/10 "2015-02-27T14:21:54Z")
Is it this one? [https://www.infogreffe.fr/societes/](https://www.infogreffe.fr/societes/) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/11 "2015-02-27T15:19:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In Delaware, where Coca-Cola (and most major US corporations) is incorporated[…] …and corporate law is whatever you want to pay for… > [@](#): > > […]the word “company” is one of the designators of a corporation. Fixed that fer ya. > [@](#): > > Coca-Cola would be exempted today anyway because it has assets in excess of $10M, which entitles a corporation to call itself whatever it wants, more or less. Really? Curiosity cite for that? Or is it just an extension of my above snark, in that Delaware tends to run on the Golden Rule? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/12 "2015-02-27T16:00:42Z")
Actually, the reason corporations like Delaware so much is the _opposite_ - it’s that it has the best-developed body of corporations law in the country and thus its chancery courts (the one that handle disputes in and among corporations) are regular and predictable. It also helps that its corporations law is flexible and allows a corporation to set most of its own parameters as long as they are spelled out in its charter. > [@](#): > > Curiosity cite for that? It appears later in the same statute I quoted above. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/13 "2015-02-27T16:42:51Z")
> [@Saturn\_Dreams](#): > > Thank you for the non sequitar that contributes nothing to this thread. It was an example. Let me give you another example. Today I was browsing through a list of companies coming to a trade show in Malmö (Sweden) next week. Some German listings included GmbH, some didn’t. Some Swedish listings included AB, some didn’t. Cisco Systems - is Systems a kind of corporation? Those listings are trade names, they’re different from the name as it would appear in a contract, and until you provide some information of the context in which you are seeing the name (which you still haven’t done), it’s not possible to say if you’re looking at what would be listed in a contract or at a trade name. ---
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/14 "2015-02-27T22:54:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is it this one? [https://www.infogreffe.fr/societes/](https://www.infogreffe.fr/societes/) That’s the one. > [@Nava](#): > > It was an example. Let me give you another example. Today I was browsing through a list of companies coming to a trade show in Malmö (Sweden) next week. Some German listings included GmbH, some didn’t. Some Swedish listings included AB, some didn’t. Cisco Systems - is Systems a kind of corporation? Those listings are trade names, they’re different from the name as it would appear in a contract, and until you provide some information of the context in which you are seeing the name (which you still haven’t done), it’s not possible to say if you’re looking at what would be listed in a contract or at a trade name. Please re-read my op carefully. You seem to have misunderstood my question. What I am looking at has no bearing at all to the question at hand. Actually, I suppose it would if I were looking at the official company register, but if that was the case, I would have my answer and would not have started this post in the first place. BTW, it’s Cisco Systems, Inc. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/15 "2015-02-27T23:32:28Z")
I could have saved you a lot of bother if you had mentioned the name earlier. US companies registered with the SEC have to [list overseas subsidiaries](http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/858877/000119312512388590/d365054dex211.htm). Cisco Systems Capital France is an SAS. Cisco Systems France is an SARL. WebEx France is an SARL. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/16 "2015-02-27T23:50:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They’re required to identify so that third parties are on notice that they are dealing with limited liability entities (in the event of a default or somesuch.)… Yeah, I think this is more or less the rationale behind naming requirements for corporations. You are signing a contract with a representative of some sort of entity and are wondering what might happen if they go bankrupt. Will you be able to collect from the owners? If you see the word “limited”, “inc.” etc. on the form, you are “put on notice” that the owners aren’t liable. If you sign despite seeing the limited liability warning, you have effectively acknowledged that you won’t hold the owners liable. There are also corporate registers you can consult. Each state (and, I presume, many non-US jurisdictions) has an office where you can look up all sorts of gory details about whatever corporation you want. In the US, the SEC will have more information on companies that are required to file statements with the SEC. So if you ever wonder “Who the hell are Idiots, Inc. at 563 Main Street, Podunk?”, you can pull up some records and find out hey, they are a Limited Liability Corporation incorporated in Delaware with a main corporate headquarters at 563 Main Street, Podunk, Wisconsin, a Delaware legal agent (for receiving legal notices) at 754 Blah Street, Wilmington, DE, that they were incorporated in 1995, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/17 "2015-02-27T23:53:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I could have saved you a lot of bother if you had mentioned the name earlier. US companies registered with the SEC have to [list overseas subsidiaries](http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/858877/000119312512388590/d365054dex211.htm). Cisco Systems Capital France is an SAS. Cisco Systems France is an SARL. WebEx France is an SARL. I don’t think the OP was referring to Cisco; that company was introduced by Nava. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/18 "2015-02-27T23:58:15Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I have been told by multiple experts - corporate lawyers, financial advisers, etc. - that it is important to use a business’s full legal name in any formal agreements. Apple Inc., Foobar LLC, Jones & Jones LLP, etc. is a necessary name-form for legal declarations and contracts… What actually happens if a name is misspelled on a formal agreement? Is the agreement automatically void? Is the company subject to lawsuit for unfair business practices? Can someone go to jail over this? There’s precedent in the US that the names of (non-corporate) people are [only descriptors of a person, and that failing to specify a “correct” name is immaterial](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_McUlta). So someone whose birth certificate says “Hubert James Finkleroy Johansen Studebaker VII” can go about their life and do business as “JF Stud” or even “George P. Binghamton St. James III” as long as they aren’t actively trying to defraud someone. ---
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/19 "2015-02-28T01:49:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t think the OP was referring to Cisco; that company was introduced by Nava. This is correct. I am researching a French national company, not a subsidiary or any other kind of off-shoot company. I understand that it might be easier if I just mentioned the name of the company but I cannot due to various reasons, one of them being legal. I will reiterate my question but I just want to know if French companies are required by law to indicate their business type in their legal entity name, much like it is in Japan, the UK and the USA, (although for the US, I believe that’s regulated on a state level, not federal). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648/20 "2015-02-28T02:11:54Z")
> [@Saturn\_Dreams](#): > > Please re-read my op carefully. You seem to have misunderstood my question. What I am looking at has no bearing at all to the question at hand. Actually, I suppose it would if I were looking at the official company register, but if that was the case, I would have my answer and would not have started this post in the first place. > > BTW, it’s Cisco Systems, Inc. That. Exactly. It’s Cisco Systems Inc. in a contract - not in other contexts; there was no “Inc.” in that particular listing; in fact, the contractual name of the company attending that particular trade show is highly unlikely to have an “Inc.”, since it will most likely be an European subsidiary of Cisco Systems Inc.; it could even be people from several European subsidiaries of Cisco Systems Inc. “Cisco Systems”, trade name; used in situations which do not have legal bearing. There are a lot of situations in which companies in many European countries are not required to use the “Inc.” and others in which they are (or in which they would even be required to spell it out as Incorporated). Depending on what kind of documents it is you’re looking at, you’re only going to see the trade name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/official-corporate-names-in-france/713648.md?page=2)