# Officially protesting the warning Colibri gave me. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 21, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390 "2011-10-21T20:14:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/101 "2011-10-25T16:02:47Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s my understanding, from reading the rules, that insulting other people on the board is limited to the flame pit. Of course my grasp of the rules may be at fault, but if this actually is the intent of the rules, then the post I quoted is a rule violation. Because it is clearly insulting. > > In essence it says “you are an abrasive/borderline poster”. I’m not sure what “borderline poster” means, but I bet it is an insult. OK it might be true, but truth doesn’t mean an insult isn’t an insult. In fact, telling the truth about somebody is the worst insult of all sometimes. > > My concept of the whole INTENT of the rules is that except for the pit, everybody play nice. Most people know how to be insulting with out actually calling names. Which is sidestepping the rules of course. The bottom line is focusing on people is against the rules (again, except for the flame factory arena). > > This is a good rule, because unless you are involved in whatever petty bitch fight is going on, it’s boring as hell to see a thread clogged with back and forths between people you don’t even know at all, and care about even less. If I broke a rule, then yes, I absolutely apologize. I was merely trying to connect the dots - it was pointed out that this OP might have started because \*\*Stoid \*\*is perceived as abrasive. When this was pointed out, she clarified that she understands that she is perceived to have an abrasive manner and seeks to moderate it IRL - but does NOT try to moderate it here. So my reply was: “okay, if that’s the situation, why be surprised that folks are inclined to see you that way? Why start this type of thread - why not just accept it, since you seem to understand you come across that way?” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/102 "2011-10-25T16:44:04Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > If I broke a rule, then yes, I absolutely apologize. Not accepted because it’s not needed. > [@](#): > > So my reply was: “okay, if that’s the situation, why be surprised that folks are inclined to see you that way? Why start this type of thread - why not just accept it, since you seem to understand you come across that way?” As I’ve tried to explain, because of **the nature** of what is being called termed abrasive. One person’s abrasive is another person’s stimulating. There’s lots of abrasive posting going on all over the board that doesn’t break the rules. People can be abrasive - or obnoxious, aggravating, irritating, annoying and otherwise piss different people off in all kinds of different ways, both intentionally and not. That’s life, and it’s definitely life on a message board. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/103 "2011-10-25T16:59:57Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Not accepted because it’s not needed. > As I’ve tried to explain, because of **the nature** of what is being called termed abrasive. One person’s abrasive is another person’s stimulating. > > There’s lots of abrasive posting going on all over the board that doesn’t break the rules. People can be abrasive - or obnoxious, aggravating, irritating, annoying and otherwise piss different people off in all kinds of different ways, both intentionally and not. That’s life, and it’s definitely life on a message board. I’m not sure what your expectations are for what this thread will accomplish for you, but I have a hunch that the opposite is happening. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/104 "2011-10-25T17:09:32Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > That’s life, and it’s definitely life on a message board. Yep - so why not just roll with it and let stuff like this go? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/105 "2011-10-25T17:43:27Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Yep - so why not just roll with it and let stuff like this go? ??? _[Because](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14387317&postcount=66)_ “stuff like this” doesn’t get or deserve warnings… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/106 "2011-10-25T17:55:08Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > ??? _[Because](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14387317&postcount=66)_ “stuff like this” doesn’t get or deserve warnings… …in YOUR opinion. [QUOTE=Stoid] That’s life, and it’s definitely life on a message board. [/QUOTE] Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/107 "2011-10-25T19:01:27Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I’m not sure what your expectations are for what this thread will accomplish for you, but I have a hunch that the opposite is happening. I try very hard not to have expectations that involve predicting how others will behave, since people are wacky and unpredictable. So as much as I can, I make my choices and do what I do for self-contained reasons that don’t rely on others behaving in a certain way. Other people’s actions and behavior fall under the “hope” category. As it happens, both my expectations and a few of my hopes have been satisfied, with a side order of stuff I’d just as soon do without, but life rarely serves us a perfect meal - so long as some of it is tasty and nutritious, I’m good. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/108 "2011-10-25T19:48:31Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > As it happens, both my expectations and a few of my hopes have been satisfied, with a side order of stuff I’d just as soon do without, but life rarely serves us a perfect meal - so long as some of it is tasty and nutritious, I’m good. Half the battle is knowing when to push away from the table. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/109 "2011-10-25T21:51:54Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I don’t pay all that much attention to this sort of thing one way or another,… > > [snip] > > And here’s what I think: the rule is absolutely _ **not** _ in place to minimize disruption of the thread in question (an issue that is largely bogus to begin with…we’re adults, the net’s established, we’re all capable of skipping posts in a thread and do it pretty much constantly) its in place to prevent complaints altogether, because unless it’s egregious, as it was here, most people don’t want to make a big deal out of it and turn it into a whole new thread full of judgment and opinion. So an ironclad rule that you have to wave a flag and make a fuss in front of the whole class if you don’t like what a mod does is a pretty effective way of making sure a lot of bad moderating goes unchallenged. Which, of course, like anything that is allowed to go unchecked, allows it to expand and multiply. :rolleyes: So you don’t pay attention, but you know the reason for the rule isn’t the plainly stated reason, but some other nefarious purpose to control the board? Right. Complaints about moderation go in ATMB. And complaints about moderation that occur in the thread in question tend to be heated, and don’t go away after one explanation, but tend to turn into three page discussions. It is the epitome of a thread hijack. > [@mnemosyne](#): > > I think the whole thing is silly. Using the reasoning that someone who has been around for a long time with no prior rules violations “should know better” and therefore deserves a harsher penalty doesn’t make sense - it’s much more reasonable to assume that they do, in fact, know better and that a mistake or a wrong turn of phrase was made rather than think that they meant something more. A mod note would have been a much more appropriate response. I agree. > [@](#): > > While discussion of a warning or note is much more suited to ATMB, I think acknowledging the note/warning within the thread is pretty standard around here. No one ever complains if someone says “Oh, oops, sorry!” in response, but if they disagree with the warning, suddenly they get threatened with a second one? Again, that’s just silly. Because an “Oops, sorry” isn’t going to turn into a giant thread hijack to dredge up every past questionable moderation or every moderation inconsistency and become a giant “The Moderators are EVIL” conversation. > [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > This brings up another issue–why not just privatize mod notes? I can’t think of any reason they need to be public in the circumstance that you’re addressing a single individual. It serves the purpose of transparency, and it demonstrates what behavior is not allowed. If those comments were privately moderated, then there would be new people coming in, seeing certain behavior like insults, and thinking it’s acceptable. And then when given warnings for it, would protest that the threads are full of insults, how were they to know, blah blah blah. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Really? Then why didn’t it happen in the JPMorgan thread, to several people who questions SoP’s warning? Just because something happens “all the time” (i.e. frequently), doesn’t mean it happens _every_ time. > [@Stoid](#): > > Given my oft-mentioned and very genuine passion for the truth,… > > [snip] > > Since my number one concern is the truth, there’s zero satisfaction in creating an _illusion_ of rightness through misdirection. Then acknowledge the truth - you called a poster a name (scold) in GQ, and you were moderated for it. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I am having a very hard time seeing why calling a poster “abrasive and disruptive” is ok, while calling a poster a “scold” isn’t. “Abrasive and disruptive” are adjectives, while “a scold” is used as a noun. One is descriptive of behavior, the other is labeling the person. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/110 "2011-10-25T23:00:40Z")
Calling someone a scold is not an insult when that person _is being a scold_. The end. Now for the color commentary: If the mod circle believes that Stoid is generally an antagonistic poster who creates a negative atmosphere everywhere she goes, and they’d prefer she stop gracing the SDMB with her presence, then they should 1) apprise her of that directly and 2) create a board rule against being an antagonistic poster who creates a negative atmosphere everywhere they go. They shouldn’t moderate inconsistently to get rid of her–if that can happen to one person, it can happen to anybody. Either a rule was broken, or it wasn’t. Choosing to apply consequences differently between one poster and another, just because you don’t like them, is discriminatory and, frankly, a fucking scary abuse of power. Goalpost-moving tactic like these tend to unsettle the rest of the board, _with good reason_, and lower faith in the modding staff. Don’t do that to yourselves. Stoid doesn’t bend or break any rules. She just has a generally unlikeable posting style. That posting style has not changed **at all**. And posting in a generally unlikeable manner is not an actionable offense. That’s why she almost never received any warnings, and why she’s still a member after all these years. Confidential to Stoid: I know I received, along with 4 other people, a very-public, inconsistently-applied, and totally unjustified warning from another moderator within the last few months. It happens. Don’t expect a retraction. I’ve never seen a moderator warning rescinded, no matter how well-presented the defense (although I grant it’s not impossible, it’s improbable to the point of irrelevancy). As an aside: The Dio fiasco is not really comparable to this situation. Dio frequently bent and broke board rules by insulting posters and hijacking threads. He actually appeared to get a lot of _leniency (mod notes instead of warnings),_ because he contributed a lot to the board over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/111 "2011-10-26T00:06:09Z")
Calling someone a liar is an insult even when the person is being a liar. It may be a fine parsing, but it is a consistent one. If the mods are trying to run Stoid off, well then it certainly would be goofy for them to tell her “We want to run you off.” But I don’t think that’s the case. But if the mods want to affect Stoid’s posting for the better, then giving her explicit instructions on the things that need improving should be done. And it would behoove them to be things they hold everyone to, right? But I don’t think that’s the case either. Stoid broke a rule, the rule about insulting people in GQ. Maybe it was unintentional, maybe it was a very mild insult, maybe it was interpreted more harshly than intended because someone read into it a definition of “scold” that is harsh. Whatever. It still violated the rules. And while the mods are allowed and even encouraged to use Moderator Notes, especially for first offences, they are not _required_ to do so. Warnings are acceptable and appropriate for violating rules. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/112 "2011-10-26T00:59:38Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Calling someone a scold is not an insult when that person _is being a scold_. The end. 1. According to the board rules, yes it is. The problem with addressing the poster rather than the post is it becomes open to interpretation. By your logic it would be OK to call someone an asshole providing they were being one. 2. Go back and reread **clairobscur** ’s post. S/he wasn’t scolding or being a scold. . ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/113 "2011-10-26T01:30:35Z")
The irony, it burns. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/114 "2011-10-26T01:33:57Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > … the post I quoted is a rule violation. Because it is clearly insulting. > > In essence it says “you are an abrasive/borderline poster”. … Sorry, but this is a very silly post. When the op is about a poster’s posting behavior and responses to it, then comments about the nature of the poster’s posting behavior is not an insult - it is an integral part of responding to the op. **Stoid** is quite confident that she is always correct and thus when she posts she is posting truth and she is passionate about “the truth” (as she believes it to be, and if she believes it, it is “the truth”). **Stoid** knows that the manner that she posts often comes off as abrasive and irritating to _many_, in short, that she comes off as a bit of a jerk to many a good deal of the time, and she believes that such is their problem, not hers. Noting this is not insulting **Stoid** ; it is merely stating that which she readily acknowledges herself. And it is at least possibly pertinent to why a rule was enforced with a warning rather than with a note: notes are designed to teach someone who wants to learn and **Stoid** is quite sure that she has nothing to learn, a note will therefore fail to motivate change, but warnings OTOH may get some attention. I am not a mod and I am not **Stoid** , but it seems to me like the message is being given that **Stoid** should stop acting like a jerk quite so often, that the means of giving that message is one that they sense she will at least hear (and that her reaction here shows the accuracy of that belief, if such was their belief). Yes she broke a rule. Yes it was a minor violation. Yes some would ignore that sort of minor violation much of the time or just make comment without a warning or PM a note about it. But you know how sometimes you can get out of a ticket if you are nice and the violation was minor and the cop is in a good mood, but if you are an ass and antagonistic to the cop they will also notice that your rear light is out and give you a ticket for that too? (I can tell a story about my wife talking herself into two tickets from having gotten out of one, if you’d like.) Yeah, this may be sort of like that. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/115 "2011-10-26T01:38:39Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Stoid doesn’t bend or break any rules. She just has a generally unlikeable posting style. That posting style has not changed **at all**. And posting in a generally unlikeable manner is not an actionable offense. That’s why she almost never received any warnings, and why she’s still a member after all these years. Issue being taken- I’ve been pretty chilled about accepting the blanket characterizations of me as abrasive and disruptive, but let’s dial down to the truth: I don’t have a “_generally_ unlikable” posting style… _generally_ my posting style is fine. I don’t create antagonism “wherever I go”. _Most_ of the posts I make in _most_ of the threads I make them in are perfectly normal and unremarkable. It’s just that _sometimes_ a debate ensues. When it does, and I decide to defend my position, it has been known to become, shall we say, intense. And those threads tend to get a lot of traffic for awhile. But that is not really representative of my “general” posting, it just happens to be what gets the most notice, understandably so. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/116 "2011-10-26T01:54:25Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Stoid** is quite confident that she is always correct Not exactly, since there’s boatloads of things I have no clue about and acres more I think I know but I wouldn’t argue about because I only _think_ I know, but I’m not sure at all. But of course I don’t make it a point to debate those kinds of things: why would I take a stand about something I really havent’ made that much of an effort to be certain about? But when I DO feel confident I’m right, I’m pretty relentless about defending it. That is not the same as thinking I’m always correct. > [@](#): > > **Stoid** is quite sure that she has nothing to learn Also incorrect. Learning is everything to me. I have an unslakable thirst for knowledge of all kinds that I spend pretty much my entire waking life feeding. And when something is of _particular_ interest and importance to me, I focus that hunger on that topic, taking in every bit of information I can find, and that is what leads to my confidence about those particular things. My certainty is not automatic, random or blind, it arises directly from the fact that I’ve made the effort to get the information. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/117 "2011-10-26T02:29:14Z")
Point taken: when **Stoid** posts she is very certain that what she posts is truth. She is then “relentless” in defending that belief. Your second point is however undermined by that first one. “Certainty”, at least IMHO, is antithetical to a thirst for knowledge (other than religious revealed knowledge). Again, I speak only for myself, but you … sometimes … come off as someone who is uninterested in what is true and instead as one interested only in that which is consistent with what you already believe to be true, and deal with the rest oftentimes with some degree of snark. Maybe that doesn’t break rules, or at least not far enough to merit moderation most of the time, but it is no surprise that others sometimes avoid engaging with you as a result. FWIW the smartest people I have ever had the pleasure to meet are certain of the least and know enough to understand how little they know. Which is, of course, an order of magnitude more than I know. (If only I was smart enough to not know as much as they don’t know! They have some high quality lack of knowledge they do.) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/118 "2011-10-26T02:34:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I speak only for myself, but you … sometimes … come off as someone who is uninterested in what is true and instead as one interested only in that which is consistent with what you already believe to be true, and deal with the rest oftentimes with some degree of snark. Having just traveled that road with you, Dseid, with all due respect, I think you could be writing about yourself. In every particular. Pretty wacky, eh? Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/119 "2011-10-26T02:51:06Z")
I believe I have used the word “wacky” three times in this thread. That’s wacky. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390/120 "2011-10-26T02:52:54Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I don’t have a “_generally_ unlikable” posting style… _generally_ my posting style is fine. By what objective scale are you measuring this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/officially-protesting-the-warning-colibri-gave-me/600390.md?page=7)