# Often: OFF-TEN or OFF-EN? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 26, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907 "2011-10-26T21:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/21 "2011-10-26T23:21:02Z")
“OFF-EN” I believe it was pronounced with a T centuries ago, but that fell out of favor. Recently the T has been revived as have other “spelling pronunciations”. It’s interesting that no one I’ve heard ever pronounced soften with a T, but it’s not like there’s a lot of consistency in English pronunciation anyway. ---
**Author:** ![minlokwat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minlokwat/32/2844_2.png) [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/22 "2011-10-26T23:23:32Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > What, no Pirates of Penzance jokes yet? > > I don’t know this board anymore. I was going to come in with “orphan” but it seems too telegraphed now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/23 "2011-10-26T23:28:17Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > I was going to come in with “orphan” but it seems too telegraphed now. I agree. The last time this topic came up, that particular joke popped up far too orphan for my tastes. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/24 "2011-10-26T23:34:52Z")
Offen. ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/25 "2011-10-26T23:37:06Z")
Off-ten. I wasn’t even aware that some people pronounce it off-en. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/26 "2011-10-27T00:51:16Z")
I used to say _off ten_. Then I read that that was wrong, and it should be _off en_, so I made a point to say it that way. Then I read that, no, _off ten_ was also acceptable. Now I don’t know how I pronounce it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/27 "2011-10-27T01:06:37Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > The t is silent. [Yourdictionary](http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/mispron.html) lists it as one of the 100 most often mispronounced words and phrases in English. [Merriam Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/often) says the t can be pronounced. Even the cites at the [YourDictionary page for often](http://www.yourdictionary.com/often) don’t agree that pronouncing the “t” is wrong. Click on “See often in American Heritage Dictionary” and read the usage note: > [@](#): > > With the rise of public education and literacy and, consequently, people’s awareness of spelling in the 19th century, sounds that had become silent sometimes were restored, **as is the case with the t in often, which is now frequently pronounced**. In other similar words, such as soften and listen, the t generally remains silent. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/28 "2011-10-27T01:34:10Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Offen, and I suspect those who say “often” are hypercorrecting based on the spelling. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/29 "2011-10-27T02:39:12Z")
I say off-en. My best friend pronounces the T and I know it’s because he’s bad with language (math whiz, English dunce). I know it’s “acceptable” to say it with a T but it drives me nuts that _he_ does it because I know he’s hypercorrecting like **Dr. Drake** says. I also get annoyed at the trend of people responding to “how are you?” with “I’m well” as I find that to be hypercorrecting too. But that’s another thread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/30 "2011-10-27T02:48:25Z")
Off’n. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/31 "2011-10-27T08:02:46Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > How do you say it? I say it frequently. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/32 "2011-10-27T08:04:41Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Offen, and I suspect those who say “often” are hypercorrecting based on the spelling. And you’d be wrong. Different accents in pronouncing words differently to you shocker. I always say it with a T sound. Not a huge one, but it is there. Unless I am drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/33 "2011-10-27T08:12:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I agree. The last time this topic came up, that particular joke popped up far too orphan for my tastes. Oh, dash it all! Here we are _again_! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/34 "2011-10-27T09:39:58Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > What, no Pirates of Penzance jokes yet? > > I don’t know this board anymore. [Ahem](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14398640&postcount=11) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/35 "2011-10-27T10:05:26Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I say it frequently. I say it offen (only once). ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/36 "2011-10-27T10:29:59Z")
Offen, to rhyme with soften, although if I’m emphasising the word I think I do sometimes pronounce the “t”. Generally though I agree that “oft-en” is a hypercorrection based on the spelling, like “for-tay” for forte. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/37 "2011-10-27T11:35:54Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Offen, to rhyme with soften, although if I’m emphasising the word I think I do sometimes pronounce the “t”. > > Generally though I agree that “oft-en” is a hypercorrection based on the spelling, like **“for-tay” for forte**. Do people really pronounce forte as “fort”? I say for-tay. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/38 "2011-10-27T13:15:12Z")
I say OFFEN, my wife says OFF-TEN. It appears that my kids say it like their mother, at least I’ve never noticed them saying it like me. But I tease her that her pronounciation of this word and some others, like chaw-clit and skoo-wool, is because of her hick north New Jersey upbringing. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/39 "2011-10-27T13:38:47Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > And you’d be wrong. > > Different accents in pronouncing words differently to you shocker. > > I always say it with a T sound. Not a huge one, but it is there. Unless I am drunk. I’m not really shocked by the concept of linguistic variation. The **OED** says: “Often is less commonly used than oft until the 16th cent. Several orthoepists of the 16th and 17th centuries, including Hart, Bullokar, Robinson, Gil, and Hodges, give a pronunciation with medial –t–. Others, including Coles, Young, Strong, and Brown, record a pronunciation without -t-, which, despite its use in the 16th cent. by Elizabeth I, seems to have been avoided by careful speakers in the 17th cent. (see E. J. Dobson Eng. Pronunc. 1500–1700 (ed. 2, 1968) II. §405). Loss of t after f occurs in other cases; compare soften v., and also raft n.1, haft n.1, etc. The pronunciation with -t- has frequently been considered to be hypercorrection in recent times: see for example H. W. Fowler Mod. Eng. Usage (1926), s.v.” So there you have it. If you say -t-, you’re well within your rights and following Good Queen Bess. You might want to pronounce “has” and “does” with a final -th sound, too. But you’re in good company, and it’s language, so you’re not _wrong_. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/40 "2011-10-27T13:57:47Z")
Offen. Wasn’t there a poll on this before? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907.md?page=3)