# Often: OFF-TEN or OFF-EN? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 26, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907 "2011-10-26T21:38:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/61 "2011-10-28T03:09:52Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I think I heard “meer” among my Arkansas relatives. That’s where my mother was from, but I can’t remember how she herself said it. May be a regional thing. I did a brief, five-person poll today on this very thing. Three people said, very clearly, “meer.” All three are Michigan born and bred. The other two said “mirr-er” - one from northern Ohio, the other from South Carolina. So I’m also thinking a regional difference. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/62 "2011-10-28T04:02:58Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > I did a brief, five-person poll today on this very thing. > > Three people said, very clearly, “meer.” All three are Michigan born and bred. The other two said “mirr-er” - one from northern Ohio, the other from South Carolina. > So I’m also thinking a regional difference. I don’t know if there’s any connection, but my grandmother in Arkansas did live in Detroit for a few years in the 1920s, working for an auto company. I say “mirr-er” myself. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/63 "2011-10-28T08:06:24Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t know why this is upsetting you so. I’m very well informed about the role of dialectal variation in language. I lived in the UK for a number of years. My husband is British. I just don’t agree with you about this particular issue, ONE pronunciation in ONE word, and I’ve provided a reasonably authoritative citation. I don’t see why you keep trying to expand this to broader points. People in my dialect hypercorrect all the time, particularly me \> I and me \> myself; so what? It’s language; people do that. It isn’t upsetting me. I just recognise that you made a sweeping generalisation and called you on it. It is like how the whole of Ireland says “thirty” as if there isn’t an “H” there. Are they doing it wrong? Are they doing it just to irritate people? Or is that just how they do it there? And an OED cite with regards to pronunciation will be geared towards RP/Estuary English as that’s how the OED thinks things should be pronounced. Unfortunately the whole world doesn’t speak that sort of English. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/64 "2011-10-28T08:08:09Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Okay. I’m willing to admit to being wrong, and apologize for making a blanket statement. Fair enough. I’ll leave it there. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/65 "2011-10-28T08:19:55Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > I was going to come in with “orphan” but it seems too telegraphed now. In linguist school I heard a story of a Boston school teacher illustrating the concept of homophones with the pair often/orphan. Homophones are dangerous territory anyway. My grade school textbooks used the pair our/hour as an example every time this concept came up. In my part of Pennsylvania, those words don’t sound much alike in ordinary speech… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/66 "2011-10-28T08:56:27Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > It is like how the whole of Ireland says “thirty” as if there isn’t an “H” there. Are they doing it wrong? Are they doing it just to irritate people? Or is that just how they do it there? I get your point but the “turty” pronunciation is far from universal in Ireland. FWIW I say OFF-ten. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/67 "2011-10-28T09:16:59Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I get your point but the “turty” pronunciation is far from universal in Ireland. FWIW I say OFF-ten. Next you’ll be telling me you don’t all dress in green and drink Guinness with everything. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/68 "2011-10-28T10:34:39Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I also get annoyed at the trend of people responding to “how are you?” with “I’m well” as I find that to be hypercorrecting too. But that’s another thread 🙂 Uh, I don’t get this. It’s normal round here (UK) to reply ‘I’m well, how are you?’ (or I’m good, well thanks, not bad, I’m fine etc etc). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/69 "2011-10-28T12:56:09Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Uh, I don’t get this. It’s normal round here (UK) to reply ‘I’m well, how are you?’ (or I’m good, well thanks, not bad, I’m fine etc etc). It has been claimed here before that the proper response is just “How are you?” However, I assert that this is an archaic notion in most of the U.S. I personally think “Offen” sounds hickish, in the same way victuals is pronounced vittles. That said, I do say it that way except when I’m emphasizing it. And my emphasis has nothing to do with hypercorrection. Like I said, I just think it sounds better. The other words so-spelled rarely need emphasize to get their point across (at least, in my speech), so I am unsurprised that this has not happened with them. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/70 "2011-10-28T15:23:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It has been claimed here before that the proper response is just “How are you?” However, I assert that this is an archaic notion in most of the U.S. Huh? The standard response to someone asking “How are you?” is something along the lines of “Fine, thanks and you?” or “Good, how are you?” You first answer and then ask them back, the exchange doesn’t just go A: How are you? B: How are you? Count me as another who doesn’t see why saying “I’m well” is hypercorrecting. Do you mean using the word “well” instead of “good”? ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907/71 "2011-10-28T20:27:07Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > When using “forte” to refer to what someone is good at, i.e. “painting is her forte,” it \*should \*be pronounced “fort.” The _for-tay_ version refers to the musical term. However, the mispronunciation is now basically standard, because the impression is if you say it properly people will think you don’t know how to say the word. Hmm, in my case it was because I first saw that word as a music student. And I always conflated the two meanings, as if you were saying “The skill of painting is loud within her” or some such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/often-off-ten-or-off-en/600907.md?page=3)