# Oh beautiful, beautiful meltdown **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306 "2008-10-24T04:37:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/161 "2008-10-26T02:29:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Is it okay if I do just half of that? > > I don’t think Senator McCain is contemptible, and I hope the GOP is redeemable. I agree. I am no more a McCain fan than I am an Obama one. I don’t trust either. I think that McCain is scary because he’s old, temperamental and has Sara Palin as his VP, and due to his age, there’s a pretty good shot that she could actually become President. I don’t like Obama because I don’t know or trust him. I think that his promises of reduced taxation on people like me in the middle class won’t happen how he describes, and I am unsure of his ability to handle partisan issues. I do like his pledge to engage non-friendly nations in diplomacy, because wars have been working out great for us, but…I see him as a guy that’s highly educated, highly ambitious and says all the right things yet I get a sense that these lofty promises will not be met due to the culture of Washington that he will be unable to change. That’s not to say we shouldn’t vote for someone that will at least try to do so…I may vote for him yet. I am still undecided. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/162 "2008-10-26T02:32:04Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I agree. I am no more a McCain fan than I am an Obama one. I don’t trust either. > > I think that McCain is scary because he’s old, temperamental and has Sara Palin as his VP, and due to his age, there’s a pretty good shot that she could actually become President. :: removes usual snark hat and hangs it firmly on other side of room to avoid misinterpretation:: Why do you mistrust Senator Obama? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/163 "2008-10-26T02:59:16Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I don’t like Obama because I don’t know or trust him. I think that his promises of reduced taxation on people like me in the middle class won’t happen how he describes, and I am unsure of his ability to handle partisan issues. I do like his pledge to engage non-friendly nations in diplomacy, because wars have been working out great for us, but…I see him as a guy that’s highly educated, highly ambitious and says all the right things yet I get a sense that these lofty promises will not be met due to the culture of Washington that he will be unable to change. Please allow me to [introduce](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10219360&postcount=33) you [to](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10219380&postcount=34) [him](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10219411&postcount=35). With the exception of those mentioned inside the quote box in the first link, all of the bills I listed were either joint legislation with Republicans, or bills that passed with unanimous consent, which, by definition, includes every Republican Senator, as well. I think his track record for being able to accomplish this kind of legislation, even in the current “culture of Washington”, is indicative of what we can expect from an Obama presidency. (Please don’t mistake any snark in those posts as being directed towards you in any way.) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/164 "2008-10-26T03:04:50Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Your suspicions aside, it isn’t clear her handlers COULD make her any better. I haven’t heard anything significantly better since, even yesterday in her speech about special needs kids. She ridiculed fruit fly research, which has provided tons of information useful in human applications. Well, ya know what they always say–“You can’t polish a turd!” Palin is the consummate lowest common denominator know-nothing, and to make it worse she’s one of those who thinks she’s incredibly clever. It’s painful to watch her clumsy ass attempts at machination, let alone listen to her pitiful attempts at eloquence. It’s quite a lot like watching a cat trying to cover up shit on a white tile floor. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/165 "2008-10-26T04:49:42Z")
[David Frum says the GOP should cut its losses and cut McCain loose.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/23/AR2008102302081.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/166 "2008-10-26T05:36:03Z")
Reading David Frum piss and moan, bitch and perform about the dreadful prospect of liberal tyanny (The crunch of Birkenstock jackboots draws ever nearer!) brings a song to my heart. Makes me wish life had a Tivo so you could tape moments like that and relive them in gloomier times. And the cherry on top? Cassandra Shit for Brains is right, its a tactically brilliant move to cut losses. No way in hell will it happen. “Taste the sweetness of destiny, fascist pig!” - Trashman ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/167 "2008-10-26T05:53:57Z")
I’m with you, Lord 'Luci! I kept thinking, as I was reading his frantic hand-wringing, “I wonder if he was this terrified of one-party rule back in 2000 or 2004?” HA HA HA HA HA!! I might not be so gleeful at seeing him frothingly frustrated if he had even once acknowledged the utter disaster _his_ party’s one-party rule has been for this country. No, it’s just us commie, pinko, tree-hugging liberals that need to be kept in check. Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/168 "2008-10-26T06:24:09Z")
Brad DeLong on Frum’s BS: > [@Brad DeLong](#): > > If David Frum really believed that one-party government was a danger, he would have been supporting Bill Clinton in 1996, Al Gore in 2000, and Democratic senators and representatives in 2002, 2004, and 2006. He wasn’t. And now he thinks that it’s time once again for Republicans to campaign by once again saying things they don’t believe. > > Can we please have an opposition to the Democrats that says things that they do believe, rather than things that they don’t? Is that too much to ask? [http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/10/i-call-bullshit.html](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/10/i-call-bullshit.html) Oh, and here’s DeLong’s roundup of Republican infighting or [The Republican Circular Firing Squad of Flying Attack Monkeys Commences!](http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/10/the-republica-1.html). ETA: Actually, Dr. DeLong, that is too much to ask of a political party. But political commentators are another matter: analysts who spout such unreflective tripe deserve dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/169 "2008-10-26T06:30:54Z")
Forgot the part about how the lefty loons are gonna use the Fairness Doctrine to crush right-wing talk radio. Well, not until after Wednesday the 5th, because I’m gonna be all over that FM dial, I’m not gonna miss a one! Hugh Hewitt, Michael Medfly. And Michael Savage! No _way_ do I miss listening to him scream his lungs out! Who says you have to die to go to Heaven? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/170 "2008-10-26T08:43:38Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I agree. I am no more a McCain fan than I am an Obama one. I don’t trust either. > > I think that McCain is scary because he’s old, temperamental and has Sara Palin as his VP, and due to his age, there’s a pretty good shot that she could actually become President. > > I don’t like Obama because I don’t know or trust him. I think that his promises of reduced taxation on people like me in the middle class won’t happen how he describes, and I am unsure of his ability to handle partisan issues. I do like his pledge to engage non-friendly nations in diplomacy, because wars have been working out great for us, but…I see him as a guy that’s highly educated, highly ambitious and says all the right things yet I get a sense that these lofty promises will not be met due to the culture of Washington that he will be unable to change. > > That’s not to say we shouldn’t vote for someone that will at least try to do so…I may vote for him yet. I am still undecided. Unreal, Your post both contains a query and an answer as to whom your vote should go for based on your own interpretations of subjective facts. And yet, you still have _doubts_? Seriously, allow me to quote you yet again: > [@](#): > > I think that McCain is scary because he’s old, temperamental and has **Sara Palin as his VP, and due to his age, there’s a pretty good shot that she could actually become President** … – bolding mine. And old, psychically sick and angry fart, backed by a clueless sex-object with hardly an iota of knowledge of world politics – to say nothing of the mess she’s made of local politics…which, as a non-American is none of my business. But still, some shitty record by all accounts. Again, I can’t imagine why anyone outside pecuniary reasons would vote for those two. Well…there is also ignorance, but I’ll leave that to Cecil. You might also want to consider that the past eight years have brought your nation close to The End as a self-appointed World Police and hegemonistic power _and_ have steered you (in general) towards bankruptcy. Yet you still consider an old fart, likely to die during his term, thus leaving you with what is basically a choice made with your ‘lower brain’ a.k.a., the Puritan and Clueless Sex Godess herself, Palin. Hope and trust, for all of us (you know, the give or take six billion non-Americans) that your country rights its current demented and criminal course. If not, well, I truly doubt that on current Neocon policy your Nation has any other route but further down. But hey! Go on and keep “doubting” your vote…third time is a charm. I’d actually hate getting the odds on that happening – too sick in my mind’s eye – but then again, would that I would have taken them VS all the drones that gulped all the crap about Iraq. “Fool me twice, you can’t get fooled again,” said a brilliant US President once. Would that it was true malapropism included. Not that it would make any difference in how history will treat him, IMHO. Be well. But most of all, stay _sane_ and open that door for a better tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/171 "2008-10-26T10:56:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Forgot the part about how the lefty loons are gonna use the Fairness Doctrine to crush right-wing talk radio. Well, not until after Wednesday the 5th, because I’m gonna be all over that FM dial, I’m not gonna miss a one! Hugh Hewitt, Michael Medfly. And Michael Savage! No _way_ do I miss listening to him scream his lungs out! > > Who says you have to die to go to Heaven? I just listen to ‘the Michaels’ because I’m convinced on (or both!) of them will conk out live, on-the-air and I don’t wanna miss that. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/172 "2008-10-26T11:23:38Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > But _rogue_, now that’s a word with punch, worthy of a rugged outsider. Hey, she went through Entrenched Republican Powers like a dose of salts in Alaska and that played out really well. For her. **So being a rogue is like, a really _good_ thing to be.** [Unless](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/04/palin.investigation/index.html) you’re Trooper Wooten, then it’s a bad thing. > [@](#): > > …Palin’s lawyer called Wooten a “rogue trooper” who threatened the governor’s family during a bitter divorce and custody battle. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/173 "2008-10-26T11:32:08Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > I just listen to ‘the Michaels’ because I’m convinced on (or both!) of them will conk out live, on-the-air and I don’t wanna miss that. I wonder what a stroke sounds like on the radio? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/174 "2008-10-26T11:38:04Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > [David Frum says the GOP should cut its losses and cut McCain loose.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/23/AR2008102302081.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) At least part of Frum’s talking points are being used by GOP state campaigns: [GOP Candidates Warn Voters About Perils of One-Party Rule](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/25/AR2008102501998.html?nav=rss_politics) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/175 "2008-10-26T11:49:04Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I see him as a guy that’s highly educated, highly ambitious and says all the right things yet I get a sense that these lofty promises will not be met due to the culture of Washington that he will be unable to change. Just wanted to point out that he really doesn’t say all the right things, at least not in the sense I think you meant, of pandering or saying what he thinks people want to hear. He spoke out against the war when Bush’s approval ratings were near 80% and speaking against the war was equated to speaking against the troops. Even in the campaign, he was the only candidate who said that repealing the gas tax was a bad idea even though people were almost desperate to have some relief. He was the only one who spoke out against the surge in Iraq, enunciating a nuanced position about how it was only one of many factors (especially the Sunni uprising) that contributed to subsequent successes. Holding a nuanced position has been the death of many a campaign. He spoke out against nuclear power and offshore drilling, even though the popular thing to do was throw the kitchen sink at the energy crisis. His position was again a nuanced one — he opposed nuclear only to the extent that the waste problem had not been figured out, and offshore drilling only to the extent that oil companies already had plenty of offshore acreage they weren’t using. There are many other examples of Obama taking an unpopular position and patiently making his case to the American people. I wanted to address this only because I’ve heard the smooth-talker charge before. The only smooth-talker in this campaign is John McCain, who has switched so many positions he had held for no purpose other than political expediency. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/176 "2008-10-26T13:54:32Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I’d like to join **eleanorigby** in thanking you for your civility and honesty. If Obama wins the presidential election, I look forward in working with conservatives like yourself to heal our country. The conservatives like him can’t get elected - see Chafee, for example. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/177 "2008-10-26T14:04:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And an unhappy Republican voter’s vote puts a Republican in office just as effectively as a happy one. One of the smarter things I’ve seen posted on here in a long time. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/178 "2008-10-26T14:14:33Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > The conservatives like him can’t get elected - see Chafee, for example. > > -Joe Chafee wasn’t a conservative at all. He was a liberal New England Republican who wasn’t popular enough to survive the Democratic wave in 2006, which Collins appears to be doing now.\* \*-Seriously, Allen, you can’t beat a Republican in New England when you already represent half the damn state? Good job campaigning…not. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/179 "2008-10-26T15:20:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > At least part of Frum’s talking points are being used by GOP state campaigns: [GOP Candidates Warn Voters About Perils of One-Party Rule](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/25/AR2008102501998.html?nav=rss_politics) So, their argument is “look how badly we screwed up when you elected us to lead two branches of the government. Don’t do that again!”? Hmmm… interesting argument. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306/180 "2008-10-26T17:02:12Z")
All I have to say is that now I REALLY want a pair of Birkenstock jackboots because, damn, that would sure make trampling human rights underfoot so goshdarned _comfy!_ And I agree, who needs the Fairness Doctrine when apoplexy is rampant? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-beautiful-beautiful-meltdown/469306.md?page=10)