# Oh, bother. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670 "2009-02-06T04:53:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/1 "2009-02-06T04:53:38Z")
‘Oh, bother!’ Winnie the Pooh said it. I used to like watching the annual showing of _Winnie The Pooh And The Blustery Day_ when I was little. Recently I’ve been watching a lot of _Good Eats_. Alton Brown says ‘Oh, bother’ a lot. So what’s wrong with it? The animated bear and the occasionally over-animated cook are merely saying something is bothersome, right? Only I recall in one of the _Discworld_ books, Lord Vetinari was called ‘Dog Botherer’ when he was in Assassin’s School. Clearly, the insult was meant to imply 'dog _buggerer_. So when we say, ‘Oh, bother,’ are we really saying ‘Oh, bugger’, or ‘Oh, F\*ck!’? How closely are ‘bother’ and ‘bugger’ linked in this context? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/2 "2009-02-06T05:31:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > The animated bear and the occasionally over-animated cook are merely saying something is bothersome, right? Right. > [@](#): > > Only I recall in one of the _Discworld_ books, Lord Vetinari was called ‘Dog Botherer’ when he was in Assassin’s School. Clearly, the insult was meant to imply 'dog _buggerer_. But the other usage long, long predates _Discworld_ and is used in many contexts (such as Winnie the Pooh stories) where it’s clear that what’s meant is an extremely mild oath (about half as forceful as “Rats!”). There’s also the closely realted “botheration” (for which [here’s](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/botheration) a cite that includes a 1918 quote). ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/3 "2009-02-06T05:45:14Z")
Yes, it’s the mildest of oaths. OED has an early cite from Dickens. 1840 DICKENS Old C. Shop xxxiii. 281 To this amorous address Miss Brass briefly responded ‘Bother!’ Etymology of the term is unknown but there’s a suggestion that it may well be an Anglo-Irish corruption of the earlier English word _pother_. > [@](#): > > [Etymology unknown; the earliest instances occur in the writings of Irishmen (T. Sheridan, Swift, Sterne), and the word has long formed part of the vocabulary of the comic Irishman of fiction and the stage. This suggests an Anglo-Irish origin; but no suitable etymon has been found in Irish. > > The Irish bódhar deaf, bódhairim I deafen (suggested by Crofton Croker), and buaidhirt trouble, affliction, buaidhrim I vex (proposed by Garnett) alike labour under the difficulty that the spoken words do not suggest bodder or bother. Wedgwood would identify the word with pother: could bother be an Anglo-Irish corruption of the latter?] ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/4 "2009-02-06T10:32:00Z")
I thought they called him “dog botherer” because his name was Vetinari. Dogs are bothered by trips to the vet, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/5 "2009-02-06T12:50:24Z")
Dog bothered, sheep botherer and so on are common terms for someone who shags animals - Pratchett didn’t invent it. They bother the animals. I don’t think it has anything to do with bugger. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/6 "2009-02-06T13:16:01Z")
I believe when dogs or wolves are hunting or chasing sheep, they are said to be “bothering” them. It’s not implying shagging at all, it’s literally being a bother to them. Which is not to say the phrase hasn’t been extended into a euphemism since. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/7 "2009-02-06T13:30:20Z")
It’s actually a play on words. A devout person is a God-botherer; Veterinarians work with dogs, so … I see that “God botherer” is English military slang for a military chaplain. I don’t think it has anything to do with either buggery or Pooh’s botheration\* per se\*. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/8 "2009-02-06T13:51:26Z")
Immensely popular, the Thomas the Tank engine series, written and produced in England, is where I heard “Oh bother” a lot since Winnie. I would think the impact from Thomas the Tank Engine is more relevant to keeping the saying alive right now. Alton Brown most certainly says it now, too. My kids, several years removed from Thomas, still say it. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/9 "2009-02-06T15:14:19Z")
“Oh, Bother!” is, of course, an extraordinarily mild oath- the sort of thing that one could safely exclaim in front of The Queen, or your Great-Grandmother, without causing the slightest bit of offence to anyone at all- and as such has become a marvellous oath for understated irony when something is truly, utterly, spectacularly fucked up beyond any hope of recovery and “Bugger” is too obvious an expletive for the occasion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/10 "2009-02-06T15:15:52Z")
In the U.S., children are often called ‘little buggers’. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/11 "2009-02-06T15:42:01Z")
- in the magnificent “Compete with the Germans” episode (filmed in Belgium, where Germans and Brits traditionally settle their differences), the Germans were of course subtitled. At one point in time, as a German driver frantically tried to change gear while yelling “Scheissgangverschaltung!”, the BBC thoughtfully translated his Germanic polysyllabic curses to “Oh, bother.” ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/12 "2009-02-06T16:49:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In the U.S., children are often called ‘little buggers’. In the UK too. But not in a context where you don’t want to swear. And I still don’t think it’s connected to ‘bother.’ ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/13 "2009-02-07T01:07:10Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I believe when dogs or wolves are hunting or chasing sheep, they are said to be “bothering” them. It’s not implying shagging at all, it’s literally being a bother to them. Oh wait, that’s “worrying” not “bothering”. Darn. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/14 "2009-02-07T01:17:23Z")
Where men are men and sheep are scared. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/15 "2009-02-07T02:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s actually a play on words. A devout person is a God-botherer; Veterinarians work with dogs, so … Note that Pratchett also uses “god-botherer” to refer to priests, and while priests on Discworld almost certainly don’t bugger the gods, they might well annoy them. Also note that the usage of “bugger” to mean “sodomize” is very rare in the US, so one referring to children as “buggers” probably means it just in the sense of “person or thing that bugs”. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/16 "2009-02-07T02:25:14Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Where men are men and sheep are scared. I thought you were Irish, not Welsh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/17 "2009-02-07T02:34:35Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I thought you were Irish, not Welsh. 😃 It works for Wales, Australia, The Falklands and NZ. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/18 "2009-02-07T02:39:19Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > It works for Wales, Australia, The Falklands and NZ. 🙂 _Touché_, Salesman. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/19 "2009-02-07T03:07:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Note that Pratchett also uses “god-botherer” to refer to priests, and while priests on Discworld almost certainly don’t bugger the gods, they might well annoy them. > > Also note that the usage of “bugger” to mean “sodomize” is very rare in the US, so one referring to children as “buggers” probably means it just in the sense of “person or thing that bugs”. It’s pretty rare here too. It’s certainly pretty much never meant when we use bugger in a slang sense. You’ll even hear surprised people say ‘bugger me!’ and I don’t think they’re asking for the arse fandango. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670/20 "2009-02-08T03:28:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Also note that the usage of “bugger” to mean “sodomize” is very rare in the US, so one referring to children as “buggers” probably means it just in the sense of “person or thing that bugs”. I’m not so sure… “little bugger” when referring to children is fine, but if were to hear the verb “bugger” the first thing I’d think of is buggering. What else could it possibly mean? I’d have to say that using “bugger” in common parlance in the USA has to be more common than using “sodomize,” which is really very clinical. Really, what would _you_ say in a bar room discussion where buggery becomes the topic? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-bother/484670.md?page=2)