# Oh come off it, Lexus! Tucker started this over 50 years ago! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 5, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627 "2004-03-05T02:46:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/21 "2004-03-07T01:38:09Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > I once saw a 1932 Packard that had driving lights (mounted to the first chassis crossmember just behind the bumper) that had a link to the steering so that they turned with the front wheels. So even Tucker wasn’t the first… Nope, but Tucker himself owned at least one Packard, and was a Packard salesman, so it’s entirely possible that’s where he got the idea from. It was **not** a factory offering, BTW, but an aftermarket kit that was available. Tucker **would** have been the first car maker to produce a vehicle with such equipment standard had he not been shut down. (One of the things which produced conflict within the company was that Tucker _insisted_ on the turning headlight [“Cyclops Eye” was the company’s name for it] and moving headlights such as he was proposing were illegal in some states, so the company would have had to spend money, uh, “lobbying” to get it changed. Obviously, Lexus has managed to do that.) I don’t know about the Lexus design, but on Tucker’s the light only came on when the high beams were being used. Tucker was apparently worried that the light would cause problems for on-coming drivers. Ford has been researching a similar system for a number of years now. However, their design involves using **ten** lights to achieve the desired results. Tatra, a Czech company (which is probably most famous for having it’s designs stolen by a certain German company with the initials VW) also produced a three headlight model car at one point in it’s history (starting the in late 1930s, IIRC). No idea if it moved or not, however. Probably the most hysterical car commercial from a bad idea standpoint, had to be Jeep’s “Satisfied Customer” one from a couple of years ago. It featured various WW II figures, like Eisenhower, Patton, and the like, in Jeeps. You know, the guys who kicked Germany’s ass. These all appeared **after** Mercedes had _bought_ Jeep (along with Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/22 "2004-03-07T01:49:07Z")
thats the same thing i though when i first saw the commercial. Its kindof petty that this is what constitutes ‘luxury’ now. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/23 "2004-03-07T02:20:23Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > thats the same thing i though when i first saw the commercial. Its kindof petty that this is what constitutes ‘luxury’ now. Well, somewhat. Tucker’s car wasn’t going to be a Chevy, he was gunning for Oldsmobile or Pontiac’s share of the market. He _did_ intend, however, to expand the line to the point where he was selling essentially an American version of the VW, that would have been a few years down the road. (It _was_, however, the specific idea he was aiming for with his “Caricoa” design, which was to have been his return to building cars, unfortunately he died before he could raise the backing to pull that off.) The _real_ reason that the blurring of “luxury” and “ordinary” has occured has to do with how much it costs to build a car these days. One of the reasons that carmakers slap so many electronic “geegaws” into cars is that they’re _cheap_ and by adding all that to the car, folks won’t mind plunking down $12K+ for a **base** model car, whereas they might be upset at paying $11K+ for a “stripper” with **no** radio or A/C. After all, why buy a _new_ car with no features when you can buy a fully loaded slightly used car for the same price? The only _true_ luxury vehicles sold these days are high-end sports cars (think Ferrari, not Corvette) and select Mercedes and BMW models. Back in the glory days of automotive car building, you would have walked into a Packard dealership, selected your engine and frame type, and then the _coachbuilder_ to complete your car. You could have done the same at any other high dollar dealership as well. This disappeared because the larger companies like GM began buying up all the various coachbuilders during the Great Depression. There has been a slight return to this way of making cars (now called “outsourcing”) in recent years, but the average car buyer has no way of knowing who the coachbuilder is or selecting a particular coachbuilder. Personally, I find it hysterical that the bodies for the Cadillac Escalade’s are stamped out by the same company that used to build Checker cabs! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/24 "2004-03-07T05:50:28Z")
Hey I got 'em all beat. My old '65 Ford pickup has the spotlight mounted on the cab with the handle inside that allows you to shine from one side of the road to the other. You know like the ones the cops like to blind you with from their car. It’s real handy sometimes, especially when the those damned “wiggly” headlights get bounced out of line. I actually had to use it to drive home one night when my headlights did go out. I was damned glad to have it. BTW It works pretty good for spotlighting deer too 😉 ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/25 "2004-03-07T06:47:13Z")
Pardon the hijack but, If I was not interested in buying an $8,000.00 Toyota (Datsun, Honda or whatever), why would I buy a $45,000.00 one?, this has been my problem with Lexus (and Infiniti, Acura etc.)from day one. Is it just me? Unclviny ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/26 "2004-03-07T14:45:08Z")
Yes, the Japanese have mastered the art of selling “luxury” models that are just gussied-up Toyotas and Nissans. Of course, GM has been doing this for years…a re-badged Chevrolet becomes a Cadillac (for 2 times the price)! What really amazes me-almost all of the modern innovations in cars (automatic transmissions, air conditioning, active suspension,power steering, etc.) were invented before 1950! Shows you have conservative most people are-I still drive a manual transmission car! Oh, regarding CITROEN-it was a truly different automobile. Andre Citroen was an ingenious innovator, and the DS19 sedan was a car ahead of its time-a pitythey never madeit in the USA! The real beauty of Citroen was the hydraulic/pneumatic suspension-it was the finest in the world, and you could raise and lower the car at the push of a button…of course, if the system sprang a leak, you had a nightmare on your hands. Are the swivelling headlights still availablein France? French cars are quite unique-engineering-wise, they are lightyears ahead of the Germans!Reliability-wise,its is a differents story! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/27 "2004-03-07T22:17:03Z")
> [@unclviny](#): > > Pardon the hijack but, > If I was not interested in buying an $8,000.00 Toyota (Datsun, Honda or whatever), why would I buy a $45,000.00 one?, this has been my problem with Lexus (and Infiniti, Acura etc.)from day one. > > Is it just me? > > Unclviny Hmmm… I suspect part of the answer lays in the word “cachet”. I hear people make that sort of remark all the time, and then they’ll go off and openly admire a 7 series BMW say, or something like that. I’ll think to myself, “OK, so what’s important here? The car itself, or other people’s reactions to it?” Now before I go any further, here’s my take on it. Mrs Boo Boo and I own, as our daily drivers respectively, a Honda Prelude and a Lexus ES300. Nothing too fancy, nothing too downbeat. But our Sunday car is a 1966 Shelby GT350 Fastback Mustang. The way we look at it is this, the Lexus is the perfect car in every respect. Utterly well mannered and civilised and reliable. But a bit boring. The Shelby, on the other hand? Holy Shit that’s a fire-breathing beast of a car to drive. Every second you’re behind the wheel is consumed with concentration and sensory input. But what fun! Totally impractical as a daily driver, but what fun. In short, the message is this… Lexus represents understated refinement in my opinion, but a wholly under-applied degree of excitement. But that’s fine. It is undeniably a high-water mark in terms of build quality. Even the Europeans concede such a thing. However, when it comes to the thrill factor? That’s why we’ve got the Shelby Mustang. I’ll say this though… the one thing I really, REALLY like about the Lexus is how anonymous it is. Nobody even notices it. Nobody thinks to key it down the side just because it’s a fancy car. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/28 "2004-03-07T22:26:58Z")
Great. More stuff that can be fixed at $500 a headlight. No thanks. Been doing fine with out them. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/29 "2004-03-08T06:32:06Z")
> [@unclviny](#): > > Pardon the hijack but, > If I was not interested in buying an $8,000.00 Toyota (Datsun, Honda or whatever), why would I buy a $45,000.00 one?, this has been my problem with Lexus (and Infiniti, Acura etc.)from day one. > > Is it just me? > > Unclviny It’s not just you **UncaV** …I’ve thought that for years. BTW You’re not still riding them little cheesy foreign bikes are ya? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JerH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@JerH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerH)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/30 "2004-03-08T16:42:36Z")
This sounds to me like some engineer at Toyota was tinkering around in the shop and thought, “Hey, wouldn’t it be cool if I could make the headlights swivel? Then the car could do googly eyes.” Then he foolishly told his boss about his idea. His boss, being an MBA with no understanding of basic engineering, said “hey, you could use that to look around corners!” Then it snowballed from there, until it became an unnecessary and expensive feature on one of their lines. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/31 "2004-03-08T18:11:25Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > I can’t say I’ve ever wished my car had swivelly headlights. > > I wonder how long they’ll last before they break down. Longer than the hidden headlights luxury cars used to feature? Not as long? About the same? It was bad enough when FIAT X 1/9’s and RX7’s looked like they were winking at you. Now these bastard Lexus’ are ging to Roll Their Eyes…? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/32 "2004-03-08T21:21:49Z")
This isn’t even that new for Lexus. Lexus (and maybe others?) have had automated moving headlights for at least several years already, just not in the horizontal direction. The lights will automatically adjust to the proper level to compensate for loading or unloading of the car and to adjust to road conditions to help keep the focus point of the headlights constant. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/33 "2004-03-08T22:34:44Z")
> [@theR](#): > > This isn’t even that new for Lexus. Lexus (and maybe others?) have had automated moving headlights for at least several years already, just not in the horizontal direction. The lights will automatically adjust to the proper level to compensate for loading or unloading of the car and to adjust to road conditions to help keep the focus point of the headlights constant. Although it isn’t automatic, the Citroen 2CV (the corrugated tin snail car) has a knob under the dash which adjust headlight aiming (up/down). The rear suspension is so soft that any weight in the back throws the headlight aim off. Geez, I’m sounding like the world’s biggest Citroen buff. It’s just that, working with God Of Citroens, some of it wears off on me. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/34 "2004-03-08T22:55:54Z")
Lexus = the Microsoft of the automotive industry? ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/35 "2004-03-09T03:43:43Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > It’s not just you **UncaV** …I’ve thought that for years. > BTW You’re not still riding them little cheesy foreign bikes are ya? 😃 I resemble that remark!, to be perfectly honest I am the stereotypical British biker guy, I don’t have anything that runs!, they are all being “worked on” (and by that I mean that I have the situation WELL under observation). Honda motorcycles pissed me off several years ago when they “invented” IBS (Integrated Braking System), Moto-Guzzi has offered linked brakes since the late '60’s (even cable operated brakes could be linked!). Unclviny ---
**Author:** ![Saracen\_Pig\_Spartan\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Saracen\_Pig\_Spartan\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saracen_Pig_Spartan_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/36 "2004-04-02T21:45:21Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > I just caught a commercial on TV promoting the rotating headlight as something they invented. Y’all may have _improved_ it but you sure as hell didn’t invent the thing! You sir, are a lying bag of shit. I have seen the ad in question no less then 10 times, (I assume it is the one involving the Lexus SUV on the curving road at night), and at **no** point are the words, _invention, invent, invented_ either said by the voice-over announcer nor are they displayed anywhere on screen. What the voice-over **does** say is, **Lexus engineers have developed…** _Developed_ and _invented_ are two words that are completely different in meaning from each other. Just because you may have something against Lexus does not mean you have the right to deliberately lie and misquote them simply so you can bitch and whine about them. Shitbag. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/37 "2004-04-02T22:41:45Z")
> [@Saracen Pig! Spartan Dog!](#): > > You sir, are a lying bag of shit. You bumped this nearly month-old thread just to point that out? > [@](#): > > \*I have seen the ad in question no less then 10 times, (I assume it is the one involving the Lexus SUV on the curving road at night), and at **no** point are the words, _invention, invent, invented_ either said by the voice-over announcer nor are they displayed anywhere on screen. > > What the voice-over **does** say is, **Lexus engineers have developed…** > > **Developed** and **invented** are two words that are completely different in meaning from each other.\* Of course, if they had come out and _said_ they had invented it, they’d open up themselves to a lawsuit. I think it’s pretty clear what they were inferring but YMMV. > [@](#): > > _Just because you may have something against Lexus does not mean you have the right to deliberately lie and misquote them simply so you can bitch and whine about them._ What misquote? The only thing I quoted was their website and I didn’t change a word. Haven’t you heard of “paraphrasing”? How about “poetic license”? And I don’t have anything against Lexus except for their implying that they have some never-before-seen technology, which is bull. However, I am beginning to have something against you for this unnecessary shitstorm. ---
**Author:** ![Saracen\_Pig\_Spartan\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Saracen\_Pig\_Spartan\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saracen_Pig_Spartan_Dog)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/38 "2004-04-03T04:35:11Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > You bumped this nearly month-old thread just to point that out?Of course, if they had come out and _said_ they had invented it, they’d open up themselves to a lawsuit. I think it’s pretty clear what they were inferring but YMMV.What misquote? The only thing I quoted was their website and I didn’t change a word. Haven’t you heard of “paraphrasing”? How about “poetic license”? _Haven’t you heard of “paraphrasing”? How about “poetic license”?_ Paraphrasing: A restatement of a text or passage in another form or other words, **often to clarify meaning**. Poetic license: The liberty taken by an artist or a writer in deviating from conventional form **or fact** to achieve a desired effect. Let’s see… what you did certainly wasn’t paraphrasing as you deliberately substituted one word for another with a completely different meaning, thus utterly changing the message from what it actually and truly said, to what you wanted it to say, simply so you could bitch about it. Nevermind that your “paraphrase” :rolleyes: was a deliberate lie on your part. As for poetic license… yeah that sorta fits, but only if you lean in really heavy on the " **deviating from fact** part which is what you did. Christ, just admit that you are a lying scumbag and get it over with. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627/39 "2004-04-03T05:38:53Z")
Thread was bumped by returning banned person, so I’m closing it. Lynn For the Straight Dope [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-come-off-it-lexus-tucker-started-this-over-50-years-ago/232627.md?page=1)