I think female, just because they could realistically see where putting her in with male population would lead. I found out about it after I’d been living out of my hometown for a while, via mutual friends who didn’t think to take note of where she was sent. I’d think that putting her in isolation, but in the male population would be deemed “cruel and unsual punishment”. Eve, it’s laws like this, in the heart of our nation, that have made me have to battle bitterness and a jaded outlook. Don’t give up. 
I haven’t yet either, and will do what I can to try to bring about change.
I think if you were making a list of “the most vulnerable people” gays, as a group, would not be in the top 10%. I agree that gay people are subject to bashing and hate crimes that straights are not. But refugees, displaced persons, people in Third World countries selling their bodies for the equivalent of $1 US, or for a sandwich, are more vulnerable. Children, here and abroad, and more vulnerable. The mentally ill. The mentally challenged. The physically challenged. I’m sorry - I don’t agree that as a group, gays are “among the most vulnerable” of people.
This rant is not remarkable for its cogency.
We’re talking about changing the Constitution, or changing the way the Constitution is interpreted, here. An advocate for the Federal Marriage Amendment is not violating his oath to defend the Constitution by urging that people vote to change it. He is, to be sure, violating YOUR VIEW of how the Constitution should be and what it should say. But he is being utterly true to the spirit of the Constitution, which defines our representative democracy is and how our notion of self-governance is given life and effect.
Similarly, when you suggest that the Constitution be changed to protect those that deserve protection - in yor view - you are, as well, being true to that spirit.
Your caution is noted. But I won’t feel bad if I have to use ambulances or EMT resources in North Carolina, for the following reason: I expect to pay for services received; were I in an accident, I fully expect the bill for ambulance and EMT work to be a part of what I pay. Why wouldn’t it?
This gave me, as the saying goes, furiously to think. On the one hand, sending you (rhetorical “you” throughout) to prison for failing to inform me as to the gender recorded on your birth certificate seems harsh. But on the other hand, do I not retain the right to decide for myself what my views are of the gender identity of the person I have sex with? May I not choose to respect your right to identify as whatever gender you consider most applicable to you so long as it is none of my business what your birth gender was and yet still entertain a different view of my own when it becomes about as much my business as anything can be on God’s green earth?
Require of me whatever code of conduct concerning homosexuals that you may wish, is it not my inalienable right to choose for myself whether or not to commit a homosexual act? By causing me to commit what I consider a homosexual act in ignorance of the fact that would have prevented my doing so, are you not committing a sex crime not significantly distinguishable from rape? If that’s so, perhaps you do deserve a spell in the slammer after all.
The point’s moot for a number of reasons. Still, I think my point of view may not be that uncommon: Out of bed, I need not be genuinely accepting of your chosen gender identity as long as good manners and a deal of keeping my trap shut will achieve the same end as far as anyone can tell. In bed, my views on gender identity count as much as yours.
I doubt this post shows me in an especially good light, but I’ve done my best. I’m not cruising for a flaming, there is a rule against that.
No! Sleeping with a transsexual is the equivalent of rape? Jesus Christ, that’s at once one of the stupidest and most reprehensible comparisons I’ve ever heard on these boards!
As much? Sure, I guess. Putting people in jail for not disclosing the gender listed on their birth certificate before having sex with them, however, is making your view on gender identity more important than the person you’ve just slept with. Should the transgendered offender be allowed to press charges because he or she didn’t know the person they were having sex with was a bigot? That’s far more disgusting and traumatic then finding out your partner was born with different bits between their legs.
Sleeping with a woman who used to be a man doesn’t hurt you. It might gross you out, or offend you, or maybe even violate your religious principles. All of those are your problems. Not anyone else’s. And to put someone in jail because you’re so insecure in your sexuality that you go all to pieces when you find out that the woman you bedded doesn’t fit your own narrow definition of “woman” is an injustice of the highest order.
The basis of your argument here seems to be that lying to get someone to consent to sleep with you is the equivalent of rape.
So, what happens if a guy tells a woman that he loves her, and that he is serious about commitment, and then he dumps her the day after she sleeps with him?
An mtf friend of mine has been aware of her femaleness, at varying levels of acceptance, for quite a while now. She had sex with straight girls who assumed she was male in gender identity as well as body. She didn’t tell them she wasn’t, and that they might be committing what they would consider to be a homosexual act. Did she rape them?
Let’s try some non-trans examples. What if I were some sort of extreme anti-Semite and the guy I hooked up with for casual sex didn’t tell me he was Jewish? Or what if you have a policy of only ever having sex with blonde women, but hook up with a brunette with a really good dye job? What if some guy I hook up with for casual sex fails to disclose to me that he is a Republican?
Is it not my inalienable right to choose for myself whether or not to have sex with Republicans? By causing me to commit what I consider a Republican-encouraging act in ignorance of the fact that would have prevented my doing so, is he not committing a sex crime not significantly distinguishable from rape?
If you think a woman’s hot enough to sleep with and never suspect that she might not have an “F” on her birth certificate, being upset when you find out later that she’s trans is your own damn problem.
Note: I do not, in fact, have a policy of not having sex with Republicans.
[spoiler]I actually have a policy of only having sex with NDPers!
… well, ONE NDPer, anyway.
Hi dad![/spoiler]
… I just realized that spoiler box could be HORRIBLY misinterpreted.
The “Hi, Dad!” at the end was directed to my father, Qadgop the Mercotan, who appreciates posts mentioning my sex life just as much as I appreciate posts mentioning his. (i.e., not at all.) It doesn’t have any creepy incest connotations or anything. For one, QtM isn’t an NDPer.
Thank God for that clarifying post.
Would you also agree that there are people in the above list much more vulnerable than domestic violence victims living in Ohio? Like maybe handicapped third world refugee children? Because those (the Ohioans, not the refugee children) were the original “most vulnerable” that the article was referring to.
The whole thing works a bit better if you rephrase the quote as “The constitution is not an invitation to strip legal protection from the vulnerable.” See? More accurate AND better irony.
Oh hush. Just because I don’t have a dirty mind… 
I don’t understand how this isn’t protected by the same kind of laws as doctor-patient confidentialty laws. I mean, you can’t be forced to share OTHER medical information, such as chronic STD treatments, anything that would make you a long marriage risk, etc. Sigh…There is something so completely wrong with this.
Are you fucking this person’s genes or genitals? Are there any unknowns WORSE than the fact that they are transgendered? I.e., do you have a legal right to know if a person you’re fucking KILLED someone? Raped someone? Where do you draw the line? How much are you entitled to?
We can certainly dismiss the whacky idea that this is rape. While there may be some uber-feminists that would label any sex act “rape” if involved a man deceiving a woman (“Hey, babe, I’m a NASA Shuttle astronaut. Wanta come back to my place and help me blast off?”) the LAW says that that sort of deceit is not rape, even if the woman swears she never would have consented to the sex had she known the guy was really a used-car salesman.
However, I don’t think it’s ethical to withhold that sort of information from someone you’re intimate with. If you’re about to bed the anti-Semite and she lets slip that it’s a good thing you’re not Jewish, because she’d NEVER sleep with a Hebe, then continuing (why you’d want to is a mystery) is just unethical. If you’re the faux blonde and you hear that your partner would never sleep with anyone but a blonde, then it’s wrong to continue. Not criminal. Not rape. Just a poor thing to do.
In random hookup sex, people do poor things to each other all the time.
And less hyperbole, and fresher breath! Yes, your construction is good.
My construction also whitens your teeth while you sleep and cures dandruff.
Better not let Qadgop know you’re looking at her construction…
Depressing but predictable, and I should have expected it. Memo to self: spout the acceptable platitudes, or shut the fuck up. Obviously I don’t have the right to decide for myself whether I’d want to sleep with someone who was born male, because exercising the right would offend someone’s queer sensibilities. :rolleyes:
Bigot? What’s bigoted? Who can help his visceral reactions? Who’s more tolerant, the man who has no visceral reaction or the man who has but resolves to override same with his self-discipline?
As much as these types of movements sicken me, I’m hard pressed to say much except that the opponents of such measures have to become as well financed, well organized, and as well represented in their lobbying efforts as the proponents. That’s the way the system works (short of open civil war). You’re all fired up and want something changed? Great - more power to you. Here’s how you get it changed - Convince the majority of those people who vote that what your idea is the better idea. Notice that I didn’t say the majority of all people, but rather the majority of the people that vote. Legislators pay absolutely no attention - zero, none, nada - to those people that don’t participate in the process. If your input is limited to ranting in the Pit on the SDMB, you’re going to be sorely disappointed in the result.
As I’ve said before in lambasting my dearly beloved Democratic Party - If I was a Republican Party leader and wanted to get 500 hard-core, rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth partisians at the State House door in half an hour I could do it. I’d have the organization, the network, and the money to do it. If, on the other hand, I was a Democratic leader, I’d be hard pressed to have that turn-out if I gave the membership a month’s notice.
And don’t cry and kvetch about “they system” being unfair, tilted, blah, blah, blah. The system is the same for everyone - the game is the same for everyone. If you play the game well enough that you can get 50% of the voting public to agree that your State Constitution should be amended to permit people to marry garden furniture, you win the game.
Yes, Thank Og from me, too.
My mind did this series of jumps: “sex with a ndper, wonder what those are”…DAD?!..wait, that’s elfbabe, she’s **QtM’s ** daughter!" :eek:
And that was about where all thought ground to a halt until I read your next post.
Er…there have been times I really didn’t like Malacandra, but I kind of agree with him here. I mean, no one should be forced to tell anyone. There’s too much government already. But, yeah, I’d like to be told. That’s not a very good surprise to come about.
Look, if life was good and beautiful this wouldn’t bother anyone. But it does bother me. I’ve never partaken in the debates on the board, because it’s none of my business, but honestly, if I am sleeping with you, then it suddenly *is * my business. I think it’s unethical for you *not * to tell.
Criminy, yes, you have the right to decline to sleep with a transgendered person. But equating sex with a TG person to rape is thumpheadedly stupid.