# Oh dear...I kind of agree with the "racist" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892 "2005-12-23T00:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/61 "2005-12-23T15:50:23Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Here’s a question for you all, what ethnicity are the parents two girls named **Shona** and **Aeris**? (I know the parents and kids.) What would you say their parent’s educational and financial status are? The names are pronounced Shawna and Air-iss. The answer is: It doesn’t matter! They will be disriminated against anyway for having unusual names. That’s the thing about discrimination, it doesn’t care what the truth is, only the appearance. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/62 "2005-12-23T15:59:01Z")
> [@Hilarity N. Suze](#): > > My guess is that the parents are white, have at least some college, but that they are the first generation in their families to have gone to college, and that they are comfortably middle-class. (I also predict that Shona will have some trouble, from which she will develop attitude.) And I’ll predict that Aeris is lucky that FF7 was released in 1997 so that not many kids will know about it. (Depending on the age of the girl we’re talking about here.) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/63 "2005-12-23T16:06:12Z")
And that’s what I get for not reading the entire thread. I thought it was just me making the connection, but if the parents pulled it from that game, wow. At least if you’re gonna give a kid an unusual name, don’t pull it from a videogame. Pull it from Shakespeare or Homer or something. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/64 "2005-12-23T16:11:57Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > On further thought, I agree completely with this. I can’t think of a single ‘strange spelling’ kid that I know that doesn’t have that background. JonBenet Ramsey. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/65 "2005-12-23T16:16:59Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > I am not sure that I follow this. Are you saying that African American culture has only been around for 400 years? Obviously there have been people with dark skin for a wee bit longer than that. Yes, but not as African _Americans_ . Lots of people use that term to mean " all black people" but that’s not completely accurate. African Africans aren’t using names like LaKeisha. It’s an African American name. Anyway, the African American meaning all the black people in the world thing is a pet peeve of mine. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/66 "2005-12-23T16:20:29Z")
I took my step daughter and her twin daughters to register for school when the twins were 5. We arrived to find only one other person registering a child. The woman seemed rather out of sorts and huffed off claiming the school district would hear from her lawyer. The problem? The woman decided when her daughter was born to name her Angel​:heart:. Yes, with a heart. It is pronounced as Angelheart but the woman insisted on the heart symbol for the spelling of her daughter’s name, she didn’t want it spelled out. The woman doing the registering said she can only use the letters and symbols on her keyboard and her keyboard does not have a ❤. I have heard of other instances of folks wanting to use things other than the standard 26 letters to name their children. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/67 "2005-12-23T16:23:23Z")
I think some of the “made up” names are beautiful and some are gawdawful. I get frustrated when I can’t spell a name intuitively, but that’s much less a problem in black naming traditions than in some others. My in-laws have a daughter named Shunna. I don’t actually know how it’s spelled, but it’s pronounced Shunna. And she complains all the time about people misspelling it. That’s simply annoying. In her case, however, the name fits. If anyone should be Shunna, it’s this annoying person. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/68 "2005-12-23T16:39:12Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I pity the school teachers of the next decade–trying to figure out how each kid’s name is spelled… They can thank god there are no more Chomondeleys. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/69 "2005-12-23T16:47:29Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > But worse than that, what you’re saying is if black people do \*anything \* differently, “people” (i.e. white people) will associate it with being uneducated (because we all know blacks are uneducated) and will discriminate against anyone who does it…i.e. _blacks_…And it’s black people’s fault for not recognizing how they’re contributing to their own oppression by not being more white. No, that’s actually the opposite of what I said. You keep saying that the discrimination is based on their colour, not their class, while I argue the opposite. Of course, neither is a good thing, but I never said they were. After reading over the thread, thus far, it seems that my “classist” hypothesis is in the minority, but I stick by it. I’ve never lived in the US, so perhaps it’s because classism is more prevalent than racism up here. I don’t know. You also contradict yourself. At first, you take the assertion that blacks are less educated than whites as a given, but then (in the paragraph I quoted) you attack the same claim. I never claimed that all blacks were uneducated, by the way. I don’t think anyone can disagree with the fact that (emphasis added) “It’s an unfortunate reality that _in some places_ of the United States, most of the local uneducated people happen to be black.” You could say the same about whites in other places. In fact, someone made a comment above about (stereotypically lower-class white) names like “Billy Ray” facing the same sort of discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/70 "2005-12-23T16:56:55Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > They can thank god there are no more Chomondeleys. Pronounced “Chumley,” IIRC. 😃 As a teacher, I get the ration of unusual names every year. In my district, it tends to the Celtic as opposed to the African-American. After a brief refresher, I can handle Siobhan and Niamh and Caoimhe. So far, no “Aquanetta.” ---
**Author:** ![kelvinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@kelvinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelvinator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/71 "2005-12-23T16:57:37Z")
I’m curious about something with regards to the naming convention in modern black culture. It appears that this trend towards the more creeative, non-traditional (read: Anglo-Saxon) names started during the 1960’s with the push for a greater recognition of African heritage. Originally, the names chosen (either by new parents or the more “radical” people who changed their “slave names”) were truly African in origin, being taken from one of the many languages of that continent (similar to someone celebrating their Irish heritage by choosing a Gaelic name or word for their child). However, it seems to me that after a while, the trend moved to “African-sounding” names: arrangements of consonents and syllables in a manner that imitated the sounds of Swahili, Kiswahili, Hausa, etc. It seems that the poorly educated inner city blacks were trying to emulate the names they had heard and, not knowing the proper spelling and not having the resources to find the correct names, made a judgement call as to the spelling. This trend then continued downward to become any name could be made that sounded vaguely African (or just different from Anglo-Saxon standards). Now it has reached the point when any name can be created in black society. I will admit that I am white and a layman and do not know if my interpretation of events is accurate. I would appreciate a rebuttal on my view from someone who is more familiar with timelines and societal changes in black society. It would be great if a sociologist or someone who has a degree in Black studies could help. On the other side of the matter, there is a [site](http://notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames/index.html) which takes an irreverant look at children’s names of all sorts. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/72 "2005-12-23T17:11:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Pronounced “Chumley,” IIRC. 😃 > > As a teacher, I get the ration of unusual names every year. In my district, it tends to the Celtic as opposed to the African-American. After a brief refresher, I can handle Siobhan and Niamh and Caoimhe. I was actually raised Catholic, and taught that anyone who was not named after a canonized saint was going straight to hell. My sister was baptized “Cecilia” because the priest didn’t believe that there was a St Sheila. And by the way, I misspelled the “Chumley” name. Ther are actually a couple more consonants in there. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/73 "2005-12-23T17:16:53Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I am completely shocked by this thread. > > We took these people’s ancestors away from their homes. We broke up their families. We forbid them from speaking their languages. We outlawed their religions. We bred them like cattle. This went on for hundreds of years. And then we spent another hundred years treating them like second class citizens. And then the sixties comes about. The civil rights movement gets underway. _And we expect them to name their children after us?!?_ So that we’ll be nice enough wait until we see their faces to begin discriminating against them?? Gee, you lived before the 1860s? I know I didn’t! WE didn’t have a damn thing to do with anything until we were born. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/74 "2005-12-23T17:21:33Z")
> [@cowgirl](#): > > [hijack] > > Why? > > I have heard this word a few times: one, belonging to a Jewish woman I know (pronounced “Shawn-a”); and two, it’s the name of a [people and language](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shona) in Southern Africa (pronounced “Shown-a”). > > Out of curiousity … what image does this name conjure up? Is it a “black” name in America? If so, is there an awareness of the African connection? How is it pronounced? Attitude, because it does something to a kid who keeps having to spell and pronounce her name. The image it conjures up is a too-pretentious, preciously spelled name, i.e., parents didn’t bother to learn how it’s commonly spelled. Most people who see it are going to pronounce it “Shown-a” and it just looks like a silly made-up name. I kind of liked Aeris, though. It’s unusual, hence most people will think it’s merely unusual, not misspelled. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/75 "2005-12-23T17:29:05Z")
> [@kelvinator](#): > > I’m curious about something with regards to the naming convention in modern black culture. It appears that this trend towards the more creeative, non-traditional (read: Anglo-Saxon) I could be remembering incorrectly, but I don’t think the standardization of names, where every third person is named John, is Anglo-Saxon. I think it was something brought across the channel by the Norman French. The Anglo-Saxons were, I think, more likely to have personalized names, names which had a specific meaning about the person, rather than just “William” or “Richard” or “James” or “Henry.” I mean, check out the monarch names: Ethelbert Ethelbald Ethelwulf Ethelred Canute Hardicanute Edmund Edgar Edwy Egbert I’d say these traditions are more in keeping with the AA traditions than with what we consider “traditional” names. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/76 "2005-12-23T17:29:26Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Wow. This reads as though you think this gal isn’t going to go far in life just because her name’s spelled unconventionally. That’s ugly–the sentiment, not the name. Actually, I thought she was not going to go far in life because I _knew_ her. And it depends on what you mean by “go far in life”–she left school and got married at 16, so at least she didn’t become an old maid. I say, what is the point of making up a spelling for a perfectly ordinary name like Sharon? If you want to call her Sharon, call her that, if you want to call her Sherry-Ann (which is how most people meeting her, teachers, etc. interpreted the name), then it’s still just a little over the top. And I should probably cut these people a little slack. If I had named a baby when I was 14, it probably would have had a name that I later regretted giving it. Something overly pretentious, spelled funny, and basically stupid. Fortunately I didn’t have a baby when I was 14. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/77 "2005-12-23T17:29:44Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Gee, you lived before the 1860s? I know I didn’t! > > WE didn’t have a damn thing to do with anything until we were born. And many of us didn’t even have ancestors in the US during slavery, if that matters to anybody. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/78 "2005-12-23T17:39:48Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Yeah, but I’ve noticed that certain cultures are more bountiful of opinions on things that have nothing to do with them whatsoever than others. I’m a little behind on this thread, as it appears that you’ve all moved past this. But I did want to comment on the point above: there’s no way it’s true. You know the saying about opinions? Everybody really _does_ have one, regardless of race or socio-economic status. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/79 "2005-12-23T17:41:04Z")
I was tagged with a mildly unusual first name and a last name that inspires people to spell it wrong. The most popular way to spell Kenneth Nottingham, apparently, is Keith Cunningham. Some folks stare blankly when I spell out my first name, obviously thinking, “He’s clearly a Martian. I knew I’d have days like this.” Because of this, I advocate naming children simply and clearly. I can understand some of your amazement. What kind of fool would name her kid Oprah Winfrey, Tavis Smiley, or Lido Iacocca? Did you know that Prince is actually His Purpleness’s first name? You have to shake your head and think somebody named Aragorn is going to come to no good. Gimli is probably doomed to sell crack on a street corner. Samwise is a bookie’s name, and Frodo will end up cleaning carpets late at night in some office building. Treebeard? He’s a biker. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/80 "2005-12-23T17:51:34Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I notice that their children are named Charles and Trevor and Melinda–not … King. > [@AskNott](#): > > Did you know that Prince is actually His Purpleness’s first name? In Zimbabwe, King and Prince are both common names. (As are other random words like Friday (Kofi means Friday), Ambulance, etc.) Some of them are, indeed, very stupid. But if young Junction works hard all his life to immigrate to Canada, I’d be pretty pissed off if he was discriminated against by an employer because of his stupid name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892.md?page=5)