# Oh dear...I kind of agree with the "racist" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892 "2005-12-23T00:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/121 "2005-12-25T22:09:28Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised to find that someone out there has indeed named their kid God… I’m reminded of former Providence College and Washington Wizards point guard [God Shammgod](http://www.dimemag.com/feature.asp?id=2067). As for the Colin Powell’s pronunciation of his first name, [this site](http://parenting.aol.com/parenting/onlyonaol/pregnancy/tools/babynamer/results/0,20081,COLIN__M,00.html,00.html) claims that it’s an emulation of the preference of flying ace [Colin Kelly.](http://www.answers.com/topic/colin-kelly) To add to the confusion, “Powell” is pronounced “Pole” by such bearers of the surname as British writer [Anthony Powell](http://www.anthonypowell.org.uk/ap/apfaq.htm#faq4). Furthermore, there’s a judge in Virginia named [Colon Whitehurst](http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=94685&ran=149294). I’ve seen his name in alumni news updates released by my alma mater, but he attended the college a few years earlier than I did, so I don’t know how he pronounces his first name. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/122 "2005-12-26T02:43:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **zoogirl** , my name is Kathleen and I go by Kat. I hope you’re not implying that MY nickname is a stripper name! (A friend started calling me that and it stuck. Oh, I know Kat can be perfectly acceptable! It’s just that out of three I know personally, one’s a sweetheart, one was a stripper and one was a hooker. The latter was for a time my “Sworn Enemy” (long story, yeah, it involved a guy… ) My perception of that particular name is probably a little skewed. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/123 "2005-12-26T04:18:19Z")
Fair enough. I used to go by Kathi (hey, I was 10 when I adopted the nickname and liked the different spelling), but then a friend started calling me “Kat” and I liked it, and it stuck. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/124 "2005-12-26T04:32:07Z")
The amount of blaming the victim going on here is just astonishing. When _else_ do you place the burden on the person being discriminated against? It’s sheer idiocy based on pseudolinguistic claptrap (“well, those names are just so, uh, trashy-sounding! Or something!” Yeah, OK.) The **only** _objective_ quality of the neologistic African-American names we’re talking about that makes them differ from more common, white names, other than the non-value-judgable (I hope nobody’s going to claim certain phonemes are inherently more educated than others) phonological similarities amongst the former is that they’re usually possessed by black people. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/125 "2005-12-26T17:16:52Z")
> [@cowgirl](#): > > Does “[Eoghan](http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=eoghan)” bother you? > > How about John and Jon? > > Catherine, Catharine, Katharine, Katherine, Kathryn? > > Shawn/Shaun/Sean? > > Elizabeth/Elisabeth? > > Ann/Anne? > > These are old, old names, with alternate spellings that each have long traditions. > > Are they bothersome too? Because if it was really about the spelling annoyance, I feel that Catherine/Kathryn should be as annoying as the other examples listed in this thread. For some reason, people don’t complain as much about those. Yes, they do. And I know one Catherine and one Katherine and they both stipulate most assertively, “with a C” or “with a K”. I loathe Shawn–and think it should be Sean. I like Anne, not Ann; John, not Jon. Again, YMMV. I don’t see how my opinion of your name (especially if it is unspoken) is a concern. I probably don’ t like your taste in neckties, either, but I’m not going to move out of the neighborhood or deny you employment based on that. If Chaka is the appropriate spelling for Chaka–and noone is trying to sell Shacae as Chaka, I’m fine with it. I know a Georgette–it is an old, uncommon name, but at least she doesn’t spell it Jorjet. I am somewhat floored by the naivete encountered here. My first college room-mate thought I was black. My maiden name is unusual, but a black Dallas Cowboy football player shared it. So, she assumed I was black. So what? She didn’t demand a new roomie or even express disappointment when I turned out to be white. Point is, she made an assumption based on knowing only my name. Just like we all do. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/126 "2005-12-26T17:27:48Z")
> [@Lama Pacos](#): > > The **only** _objective_ quality of the neologistic African-American names we’re talking about that makes them differ from more common, white names, other than the non-value-judgable (I hope nobody’s going to claim certain phonemes are inherently more educated than others) phonological similarities amongst the former is that they’re usually possessed by black people. My dentist’s wife, who works in his office, is named Deedle. She’s white. She’s a wonderful person and I’ve known her for years, but I can never bring myself to say her name to her out loud, because I’m afraid I’m going to say it with a weird tone of voice. So at least for me it’s not just a black thing. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/127 "2005-12-26T20:26:32Z")
I like unusual names. I always wanted to name a girl Coagulatedaluminum, and a boy Krizmo Bizmark of Nazareth. Unfortunately, my first wife wouldn’t allow it, and now Edlyn and I are too old. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/128 "2005-12-26T22:25:20Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I like unusual names. I always wanted to name a girl Coagulatedaluminum, and a boy Krizmo Bizmark of Nazareth. Unfortunately, my first wife wouldn’t allow it, and now Edlyn and I are too old. Did you hate your children, **Lib**? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/129 "2005-12-26T22:39:39Z")
I’m an urban public school teacher. About half of my students are African-American. I enjoy reading my student roll every year before I meet my students. There’s a music and beauty to their names. And every year, I guess wrong on a few names, where the child whose name I thought must surely indicate a black child turns out to be white, or Arab, or some other new thing. I don’t like to think that my students may be rejected unseen because of their names by interviewers and recruiters. But I don’t think that they’re the ones who need to change- it is the racists who need to change. Perhaps it is time for a few cases of name discrimination to be brought to the attention of the courts- the patterns could be established using the same methods that are used to demonstrate racial discrimination in housing, sending equally qualified resumes with different names and documenting the patterns. There are always popular names. This year, among my white students, I have lots of Sophies. Among my black students, last year’s class seemed to have a preponderance of Jasmines. Actually, a Jasmine, a Jasmyn, a Jazmin, and a Yasmeen. It takes me a little longer to learn to tell Jazmin from Yasmeen, just like it takes me a while to tell Sophie from Sofie, but I get it. It’s not their job to be named for my convenience, it’s my job to learn their names and to judge them by their abilities, not their spellings. If I had a quarter for all the Kaylah/Kailah/Kailee/Kylie/Kaylees I’ve had, I could buy a pretty nice dinner. Those come in both colors. Tyler’s a name that seems popular at the moment for boys and girls, white and black, and that can get pretty confusing. I’ve seen a lot of little girls with ‘invented’ names who are named for their fathers. Jo’tina, Ronneisha, Johnecia, Davidia, Raynell. I think that’s sweet, and I’ll bet their fathers do, too. At first, names like Na’kiima and Marcella sounded strange to me. But when you’re actually getting to know a person, her name soon becomes as normal as Becky or Jennifer. People who would discriminate based on a name will also discriminate based on the skin color, so naming a child to please the racists isn’t going to help unless you also have her skin bleached. I wouldn’t expect Shaniqua’s parents to pick a more European-sounding name any more than I’d expect it of the parents of Tariq, Mohammad, or Mariam. In a country like ours, with people drawing on a wide range of ethnic and cultural traditions, the population OUGHT to have a wide range of names. It would be kind of odd if we didn’t. And it isn’t just black parents who give their kids funny names. I’m very fond of Jing and Suohing, and I wouldn’t dream of suggesting that their parents should have just named them Jane and Susan, since they’re Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/130 "2005-12-26T22:41:59Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > My understanding is that Dr. Rice’s mother chose the italian musical designation _condoleeza_ for her daughter. It’s a variation of _con dolcezza_, the musical term meaning “with sweetness.” (Source: _Esquire_ magazine.) As for this being a new or black trend: There’s a “Gasoline Alley” strip from the 20s where Walt names Skeezix. One of his neighbor’s comments was “If you give him a highbrow name, he’ll be a lowbrow and if you give him a lowbrow name, he’ll be a highbrow.” Back in the 70s, on some Phil Donahue-type show, the host asked a poor black woman why she gave her daughter such a lampshade-on-the-head name. The mother replied that she didn’t have the money to give her daughter lavish gifts, but she could give her a very unique and special name. Seems to me some ladies named Oprah and Beyonce do okay. And a young lady named Caryn Johnson gained some prominence by changing her name to Whoopi Goldberg. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/131 "2005-12-26T23:04:57Z")
I like unusal names too, but I prefer those that have some meaning. Sojourner Truth. Charlie Manson. (“Charles is Man’s Son.”) A girl I know named Yreva was named for her father, Avery. My mother’s nom de plume is “Majuel” to honor her great grandmother, grandmother and mother – Margeret, Julia and Elizabeth. Now where names get really inventive are those in the black Muslimesque movement called the Five Percent Nation. Typical names sound like superheroes: Wise Jihad Shabazz, Divine Order, Righteousness, Supreme Justice, Essence, Born Culture Allah, Divine Man, Righterous Ruler, Infinite Peace, Queen Unique, etc. I mean, _damn._ That’s self-determination like a muthafucka. Habari Gani. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/132 "2005-12-26T23:09:58Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Seems to me some ladies named Oprah and Beyonce do okay. And a young lady named Caryn Johnson gained some prominence by changing her name to Whoopi Goldberg. But Beyonce was a family name, not a made-up one (and anyway she’s gorgeous, talented and hardworking, not necessarily in that order, so she could be named anything IMO). Orpah was a typo. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/133 "2005-12-26T23:11:02Z")
Darn it, that should read, “Oprah” was a typo. (And an easy one to make, I might add.) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/134 "2005-12-26T23:15:37Z")
I was talking with my dad about what I would hypothetically name my son. Basically, I’ve come to the conclusion that a son will be named Patrick (My brother’s middle name), and his last name would be my last name, of course (in this example, “Leader” is substituted for my real name). I toyed with the idea of calling my son “Patrick Henry Leader”. My dad’s reply being “Oh good, name him after a political extremist who was hung for treason.” “Oh, they hung him? Nevermind.” ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/135 "2005-12-26T23:18:51Z")
Upon checking Wikipedia, it seems my dad was wrong on the account of Patrick Henry being hung for treason :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/136 "2005-12-26T23:58:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Did you hate your children, **Lib**? 😉 It may seem that way at first blush, but the names are actually well thought out. Coagulatedaluminum is basically a syllabulum — a sort of musical scale of the sounds that most characterize English as apart from other languages. Compare, for example, how the word “camera” sounds pronounced in English to how the same word would be pronounced in Spanish. Someone on Straight Dope once said that English sounds like water running over pebbles, and I agree with that. As for the boy’s name, Krizmo Bizmark of Nazareth, there is a crescendo of consonants that move from staccato to fluid. In the midst of it all is a recurring vocalized sibilant. It’s a name too astounding for other children to mock, and seems likely, at least to me, to give the child who has it an advantage in self-esteem. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/137 "2005-12-27T00:43:11Z")
Wow. \>\>\> Slow clap. \<\<\< I don’t care if this is a whoosh. The sheer force of persuasive assertions and the hard-to-definitively-dispute rationale behind the choices (“advantage in self-esteeem”, indeed!) , and getting me to actually read aloud ‘Colagulatedalumnium’ all point to a brilliant hoax. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/138 "2005-12-27T00:44:51Z")
Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week. 😃 (But I really do like the names, and for the reasons specified. I know I’m probably crazy for it, but oh well…) ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/139 "2005-12-27T00:59:46Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Upon checking Wikipedia, it seems my dad was wrong on the account of Patrick Henry being hung for treason :smack: hijack – Your dad was probably thinking of “I regret that I have but one life to lose for my country” Nathan Hale and not “Give me liberty and give me death” Patrick Henry. It’s almost understandable. Outside of their home states and their adherents, they’re both pretty much famous because of one line. The guy that plays Patrick Henry at Colonial Williamsburg (a very charming man both as Henry and as himself) will admit as much. I don’t know what your last name is, but I think both “Nathan Hale” and “Patrick Henry” would make great names for a boy. ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/140 "2005-12-27T01:01:18Z")
> [@lalaith](#): > > hijack – > “Give me liberty and give me death” Patrick Henry. That’s “Give me liberty OR give me death.” :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892.md?page=8)