# Oh dear...I kind of agree with the "racist" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892 "2005-12-23T00:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/141 "2005-12-27T01:59:42Z")
> [@Lama Pacos](#): > > The amount of blaming the victim going on here is just astonishing. When _else_ do you place the burden on the person being discriminated against? It’s sheer idiocy based on pseudolinguistic claptrap (“well, those names are just so, uh, trashy-sounding! Or something!” Yeah, OK.) The **only** _objective_ quality of the neologistic African-American names we’re talking about that makes them differ from more common, white names, other than the non-value-judgable (I hope nobody’s going to claim certain phonemes are inherently more educated than others) phonological similarities amongst the former is that they’re usually possessed by black people. Exactly. And it also reflects the essence of racism - that racists can’t see their own opinions as subjective - they believe there’s something objectively bad or inferior in whatever they’re prejediced against: “Dark skin \*is \* ugly,” “Urban names \*are \* trashy,” “Older names \*are \* better,” “Ebonics is ignorant,” etc. It becomes a vicious cycle. Urban names are seen as trashy (ultimately because black people have them), and therefore black people who have them must be too ignorant to know how trashy their names are. More evidence that blacks are inferior and don’t know what they’re doing, right? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/142 "2005-12-27T02:49:21Z")
> [@lalaith](#): > > That’s “Give me liberty OR give me death.” :smack: Also the one famous quote for Lieutenant Colonel William Berret Travis, who was famous for quoting Patrick Henry and disobeying orders from General Houston to _not_ try to hold San Antonio and the Alamo against Santa Anna’s forces. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/143 "2005-12-27T03:59:26Z")
So, since it’s politically incorrect to say that child names like LaShiquanda, Placenta, Tammi Sue, Ray Bob and Typhanee could reflect the underprivileged and uneducated background of the parents, does that mean [discussion of unusual names](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176996) is now a taboo subject on the SDMB along with obesity, SUV ownership and circumcision? Should [Urhines Kendall Icy Eight Special K](http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/stf33/public/stf33birthannouncement.pl?babyID=h33-440) be considered as acceptable as John and Sarah, and that we should not think any less of the parents for naming their kid after a royal title, motor oil, weather condition, and breakfast cereal or street name for ketamine? Is it only acceptable to consider a name inappropriate or strange when the parents are of a white middle and upper income background? It it wrong to think that LaEboniquia sounds strange and Aymbyr trashy, but okay to condemn the parents of Tucker and Aviva? After reading this thread, that seems to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/144 "2005-12-27T04:56:20Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > So, since it’s politically incorrect to say that child names like LaShiquanda, Placenta, Tammi Sue, Ray Bob and Typhanee could reflect the underprivileged and uneducated background of the parents, does that mean [discussion of unusual names](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176996) is now a taboo subject on the SDMB along with obesity, SUV ownership and circumcision? Should [Urhines Kendall Icy Eight Special K](http://www.newbabynews.net/hospitals/stf33/public/stf33birthannouncement.pl?babyID=h33-440) be considered as acceptable as John and Sarah, and that we should not think any less of the parents for naming their kid after a royal title, motor oil, weather condition, and breakfast cereal or street name for ketamine? Is it only acceptable to consider a name inappropriate or strange when the parents are of a white middle and upper income background? It it wrong to think that LaEboniquia sounds strange and Aymbyr trashy, but okay to condemn the parents of Tucker and Aviva? After reading this thread, that seems to be the case. Wait, we haven’t done the hippie names yet. You know, Moonstone, Bluejay, Dweezil (two categories, Celebrity and Hippie), Passion, Peace, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/145 "2005-12-27T05:03:10Z")
> [@Hilarity N. Suze](#): > > Darn it, that should read, “Oprah” was a typo. > > (And an easy one to make, I might add.) In Oprah’s case, I think she got the better deal in the end. Oprah sounds much prettier than Orpah. If I could get away with it, I’d love to have a daughter and name her Olga, but I just know that everyone would think she’s a nasty, old commie lady. (I like the name Olga, seriously) ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/146 "2005-12-27T05:21:41Z")
> [@](#): > > So, since it’s politically incorrect to say that child names like LaShiquanda, Placenta, Tammi Sue, Ray Bob and Typhanee could reflect the underprivileged and uneducated background of the parents, does that mean discussion of unusual names is now a taboo subject on the SDMB along with obesity, SUV ownership and circumcision? You seem to be confusing a couple of different things: first, the difference between _observing_ and _participating in_ the privilege accorded to various names. Second, the difference between one’s own opinion and one’s belief on how or how not to apply those opinions. I can think that Hnktltkt!!!yaja’wannablprtvishayanzzzhiddyzzhillll?poe is a horrific trainwreck of a name aesthetically, but that doesn’t mean I think little Hank “deserves to be” discriminated against somehow. I can also think Dawn is just as horrible a name. Maybe I hate /d/. That doesn’t mean her parents should have named her something else, just to please my taste. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/147 "2005-12-27T08:51:49Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > What??? How are Charlayne, Audre and Coretta “trash names,” but not Oprah, Joycelyn, Condolleeza, Zora, Chaka or Tavis? My guess is they’re trash (okay, you’ve got me about Corretta, but the first two) the same way that Brittenee, Hektor, KaeLeigh, Jaysen and Crystyn used for little white kids are - they’re close to “regular” names, but tarted up with the spelling. I much prefer truly ethnic names from any ethnicity, or even ones wholly invented ones (I know a Chandra, a Barsha, a Kristia and a Talon for examples of both), to people being kre8tive with spellings of traditional names. If you want to be creative, get yourself renamed with a new spelling. It’s not too expensive to do so, and it’d be the esthetics of your own name you were ruining, not a defenseless baby’s. Someone commented that spelling your name only takes 10 seconds so it’s not a big annoyance, well multiply that out by how often you give you name, and it probably adds up to months wasted over your lifetime. Especially your first name; my _last_ name is a short, basic scientific term people learn to spell by third grade, yet at least 1/3rd of people who need to write it down ask me how to spell it. Obviously, it’s a trick name. It _couldn’t_ be spelled like the noun. :rolleyes: If it were my first name I had to spell all the time instead, that would be even more annoying, since it’s something you give out more often. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/148 "2005-12-27T10:17:17Z")
Can we please stop talking about “made-up” name? The only name that wasn’t “made-up” is Adam. _All_ names held by a person with ethnicity are “ethnic names”, _all_ names given by a family have a “family heritage”, _all_ name given by people with ancestors have “tradition” behind them and _all_ names bestown by a conscious person have “meaning” and “purpose”. I can’t believe you really think that while white people spend months reading baby books, discussing names and fantasizing about what their new baby will be like, black people just name their kids any old thing that comes to the top of their head. Anyway, I was named a name that enjoyed a period of popularity after being featured in a movie, because my mom and dad could not agree on a name and time was running out. It means “white and fair” even though I was born with dark red skin and jet black hair. It’s origins are from a country and culture that my parents probably couldn’t have even placed on a map. I assure you that if they had named me “LaShawnique” it would have had lightyears more meaning, purpose, and tradtion than my name. My name is Jennifer. FWIW, I have to spell my name for people all the time. My first name is Jennifer and my last name is an extremely common and unmistakeable noun along the lines of “lamp” or “tree”. Anyone with a name more complicated than “Joe” is going to have to deal with that in their life. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/149 "2005-12-28T18:44:11Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > I can’t believe you really think that while white people spend months reading baby books, discussing names and fantasizing about what their new baby will be like, black people just name their kids any old thing that comes to the top of their head. You might be unpleasantly surprised. I still can’t believe the woman who named her badass son D’Emon. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/150 "2005-12-28T20:32:07Z")
Doesn’t mean she didn’t spend time thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/151 "2005-12-28T20:40:02Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > FWIW, I have to spell my name for people all the time. My first name is Jennifer and my last name is an extremely common and unmistakeable noun along the lines of “lamp” or “tree”. Anyone with a name more complicated than “Joe” is going to have to deal with that in their life. True, that. I always used to have to spell my last name for people (our spelling of it wasn’t the most common one). When I got married and changed my name (my new name is a common name, not really Neville) I thought that would end. It didn’t- Mr Neville has gotten as many misspellings of his last name throughout his life as I have of mine, even though I’m pretty sure our spelling of our last name is the most common one. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/152 "2005-12-29T01:08:40Z")
Am I the only one who doesn’t like Shaniqua because it just plain sounds ugly? There are other uh, I guess, “African-American” names that are prettier. One name I heard, “Kaleesha”. I thought that sounded lovely. Leticia’s a beautiful name, too. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/153 "2005-12-29T01:19:08Z")
The problem is that there are black names that are widespread enough that they can’t be said to be “made up”. Names of African heritage, like Aisha (Swahili), Bakari (Swahili) or Chara (Ethiopian). Islamic/Arabic names like Jamila, Jamil, or Saleem. Names of another ethnicity like Tyrone (Greek), Darnell (English), Antoine (French), Marcus (Latin) Leticia (Spanish), or Maia (Greek). Names that were coined solely by African Americans, either by combining or transforming pre-existing names (like “Demarco”, “Lasondra”, or “Lawanda”) or creating something out of whole cloth (like “Temika” or “Keisha”). They are adopted today because they are seen as being nice-sounding, respectable names…not necessarily because they are unique. I know people named all the above names. None of them are trashy, poor, or uneducated. Sure, a parent who names their child “La-Shay-Shay” should be horse-whipped, but what about a parent who names their child “Latonya”? Should Ebony, Germaine, and Shondra be ashamed of their names because they may be perceived as being too “black”? Where do we draw the line in bashing “black” names? Do all of them get tarred or is it just some of them? The woman in the commercial is wrong because black people do not have some monopoly on weird names. That’s like saying “What’s up with white names?” because you’ve run across a few Rainbow’s, Dakota’s, and Solei Moon Fry’s. IMHO, discriminating against a name because it’s linked to low-classdom is just as wrong as discriminating against a name because it’s black. I don’t know why people don’t understand that. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/154 "2005-12-29T02:26:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Names of another ethnicity like Tyrone (Greek), Irish, I believe :). An anglicization of _Tir Eoghain_, roughly central Ulster, where the O’Neil family ( later and briefly, earls of Tyrone under English authority )was dominant. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/155 "2005-12-29T02:28:53Z")
Oh yeah and my first name is Nikola - you can’t imagine how often I get mistaken for female ( sight unseen, obviously 😉 ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/156 "2005-12-29T06:57:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The woman in the commercial is wrong because black people do not have some monopoly on weird names. That’s like saying “What’s up with white names?” because you’ve run across a few Rainbow’s, Dakota’s, and Solei Moon Fry’s. But… I like Dakota. That’s a nice name. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/157 "2005-12-29T14:31:40Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > But… I like Dakota. That’s a nice name. 😕 Well, I suppose that’s my point. I like Dakota too. I also like Keisha, Temika, and Demarco. Why should the names I like be more villified than the names you like? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/158 "2005-12-29T15:09:46Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > On further thought, I agree completely with this. I can’t think of a single ‘strange spelling’ kid that I know that doesn’t have that background. I have noticed this trend as well. It seems that the middle-class and upper middle-class black families I have known tend to go the “give your kids regular names” route. The poorer and lower-class blacks, by contrast, are the ones who make up interesting/unique names for their children. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/159 "2005-12-29T15:37:09Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > I have noticed this trend as well. It seems that the middle-class and upper middle-class black families I have known tend to go the “give your kids regular names” route. The poorer and lower-class blacks, by contrast, are the ones who make up interesting/unique names for their children. It’s like I wrote on page one: the more assimilationist and mainstream your lifestyle and ambitions are, the more likely you are to name your kids conservatively. This is just a tendency, not something written in stone. I know plenty of poor and working class black people who give their kids typical American names, just like I know plenty of middle class and affluent black people with names like mine. It also depends in large part on how ethnic you wish to appear to be. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892/160 "2005-12-29T15:44:09Z")
> [@me](#): > > You might be unpleasantly surprised. I still can’t believe the woman who named her badass son D’Emon. > [@Lama Pacos](#): > > Doesn’t mean she didn’t spend time thinking about it. Granted, but while we give folks the benefit of the doubt, let’s not pretend there aren’t people out there with questionable parenting skills and an embarrassing inability to spell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-i-kind-of-agree-with-the-racist/336892.md?page=9)