# Oh dear, the violence has started **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778 "2016-10-16T22:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/21 "2016-10-16T22:57:53Z")
20 cars vandalized outside a Trump rally earlier today. > **[Police on lookout for vandals who spray-painted cars outside Trump rally in...](https://www.bangordailynews.com/2016/10/15/news/bangor/vandals-spray-paint-at-least-20-vehicles-outside-trump-rally-in-bangor/)** > > Several attendees left Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump’s Saturday rally in Bangor to find their parked cars vandalized with white spray paint. The sooner this election cycle ends the better. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/22 "2016-10-16T22:58:35Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > So, since it would have been brought up if a Hillary office had been bombed/vandalized - any chance it is false flag operation by some Trump supporters trying to make Hillary look bad? I in no way think the Trump campaign (or the Hillary campaign) had anything to do with this. I’m pretty sure the Don Con will blame her for this incident next debate. ---
**Author:** ![Skinnybones\_Lampshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skinnybones_lampshade/32/2872_2.png) [@Skinnybones\_Lampshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skinnybones_Lampshade)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/23 "2016-10-16T22:59:41Z")
**Locrian** , please do not continue this. It’s sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/24 "2016-10-16T23:00:24Z")
This reminds me of the Scottish independence referendum when unionist offices - both Tory and Labour - were vandalised and had Nazi graffiti - Q for Quisling - daubed on them. I’m pleased to see Clinton react; the SNP leadership said nothing at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/25 "2016-10-16T23:02:52Z")
> [@Skinnybones\_Lampshade](#): > > **Locrian** , please do not continue this. It’s sickening. I apologize. I’m just sick of the somewhat human GOP nominee. I’d delete my earlier post-- or rephrase it-- if I could. My fault. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/26 "2016-10-16T23:08:26Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Bolding mine. No one was injured. Fine. Misdemeanor, $20 fine each. Trumpy Wumpy’s supporters are supporting violence. Tit for tat. All we’re going to hear from the most disgusting man in the nation is that Hillary planned it. More violent rhetoric. > > Best thing is to kidnap his kids and watch him refuse to pay the kidnappers. > > It’s their Machiavellian hell they created, not mine. You imagine Trump owns that building!?! It is owned by some company named Daniel Boone Ltd. Realty company that just rented out the space and probably doesn’t give two damns about the politics. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/27 "2016-10-16T23:08:43Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > So, since it would have been brought up if a Hillary office had been bombed/vandalized - any chance it is false flag operation by some Trump supporters trying to make Hillary look bad? I in no way think the Trump campaign (or the Hillary campaign) had anything to do with this. I hate to say it, but this is the first thought I had, too. Swastikas aren’t really the style of libs. I’m not saying it _wasn’t_ libs – obviously we don’t know anything about it at all at this point. I am sickened either way. Violence is never an acceptable option in an election. I am proud Clinton responded quickly and as she did, and so relieved no one was hurt. Agree this is the sort of thing that _helps_ Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/28 "2016-10-16T23:12:51Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > So, since it would have been brought up if a Hillary office had been bombed/vandalized - any chance it is false flag operation by some Trump supporters trying to make Hillary look bad? I in no way think the Trump campaign (or the Hillary campaign) had anything to do with this. I agree it would have been brought up if it had been an Dem office, but maybe not here. Definitely in the conspiracy circles. No, I do not think it is a false flag. I agree with you that neither campaign had anything to do with this. Mostly likely, young, dumb, liberals. I have it in my head males are more likely to commit this sort of offense, but I’m not sure if that’s correct. Less likely is young, dumb, and not political, but want to throw off the scent. Less likely than actual liberals (of whatever age or gender). Faker looking for sympathy for GOP (possibly even one associated with campaign) is even less likely. Each presidential election year, it seems like we hear a few faked crimes - either with political motives or just for attention - but it seems like those tend to be attacks on a person, rather than an office. Will be interesting to see if anything was caught on any nearby cameras or the like. I want the perpetrators caught. > [@](#): > > It is completely unacceptable, and NOBODY should be cheering it on. Ever. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/29 "2016-10-16T23:16:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As Clinton’s campaign has already said: > It is revolting to treat this as a good thing. Trump also responded (sigh): > [@](#): > > Animals representing Hillary Clinton and Dems in North Carolina just firebombed our office in Orange County because we are winning @NCGOP In saner voice news, Aaron Gardner, a contributor for Redstate said: > [@](#): > > I am reserving comment on the NC GOP office fire. I remember the girl who carved her own face up as a hoax. And that was in normal times. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/30 "2016-10-16T23:18:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m pretty sure I join like 99% of the posters on this board in wholeheartedly condemning this dangerous violence. I am really glad that Clinton doesn’t wink at it or do anything to suggest that this is an appropriate response to one’s political enemies. I am condemning this dangerous violence, no good is going to come out of this ! I am hoping this won’t be the start of more bombing . ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/31 "2016-10-16T23:19:22Z")
And there it is. I was wrong. Trumpy brought it up already. I thought he’d wait for debate. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/32 "2016-10-16T23:21:47Z")
I think that HRC is the most qualified presidential candidate in modern history, but I’m also a volunteer firefighter who would proudly risk my life to help if something like this were to happen in my community. Horrible, just horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/33 "2016-10-16T23:22:21Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > So, since it would have been brought up if a Hillary office had been bombed/vandalized - any chance it is false flag operation by some Trump supporters trying to make Hillary look bad? I in no way think the Trump campaign (or the Hillary campaign) had anything to do with this. I guess we won’t know until the people who did it are caught and all the information comes out, but sometimes idiots just do exactly what you would expect them to do (as idiots), regardless of which side they’re on politically. Violence is always the next step that some people will take after their opponents are demonised. ETA: And thanks to Donald for proving my point. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/34 "2016-10-16T23:24:17Z")
Almost certainly NOT a false flag in the traditional sense. Could certainly be Trumpees who think the local RNC isn’t full-throated enough in their support of Trump. IOW, despite the attack is targeting Rs, not Ds, it may well be rightist extremists. Or it might be leftists as has been said above. Time & the FBI will tell. I don’t know how the various local R candidates and party bigwigs have been threading the tightrope between supporting Trump and distancing themselves from him. Any one know? The important thing in the next 24 hours is how Trump reacts. What he says about the RNC in NC and who he blames for the attack. Not that what he says will necessarily be factual. But it will tell us how he intends to react to future violence. Once we have credible attribution for the attack, who will be willing to call it “domestic left/right terrorism?” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/35 "2016-10-16T23:27:51Z")
No idea who did it and hope they are caught and punished to the full extent of the law. Trump may have attracted the lion’s share of the violent nutjobs but no question there are some few of them who are against him as well (may not be for Clinton but against him). ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/36 "2016-10-16T23:31:23Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I hate to say it, but this is the first thought I had, too. Swastikas aren’t really the style of libs. I’m not saying it _wasn’t_ libs – obviously we don’t know anything about it at all at this point. > > I am sickened either way. Violence is never an acceptable option in an election. I am proud Clinton responded quickly and as she did, and so relieved no one was hurt. > > Agree this is the sort of thing that _helps_ Trump. Nah, I’ve seen plenty of Swastikas used by libs in criticism of Trump. That’s actually the scary thing about this election, the propaganda praising him by white supremacists is almost indistinguishable from the propaganda criticizing him for catering to white supremacists. E: Like, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was an attack somebody wants to pin on the dems to help Trump, but I also don’t think it’s unlikely that a radical leftist did it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/37 "2016-10-16T23:34:08Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Nah, I’ve seen plenty of Swastikas used by libs in criticism of Trump. That’s actually the scary thing about this election, the propaganda praising him by white supremacists is almost indistinguishable from the propaganda criticizing him for catering to white supremacists. My eyes are opened, then, and thank you for that. I’ve not seen it – but I do live in a rather isolated way. Puts a lump in my throat to learn of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/38 "2016-10-16T23:34:57Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > My eyes are opened, then, and thank you for that. I’ve not seen it – but I do live in a rather isolated way. Puts a lump in my throat to learn of it. I’m not super fond of Cracked, but they have a good article with examples: > **[The Problem With Calling Donald Trump A Nazi](https://www.cracked.com/blog/digging-truth-are-trump-swastikas-or-against)** > > A message to the people painting swastikas on Donald Trump signs this fall: We're gonna need you to be more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/39 "2016-10-16T23:35:15Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The important thing in the next 24 hours is how Trump reacts. What he says about the RNC in NC and who he blames for the attack. Not that what he says will necessarily be factual. He already Tweeted that it was done by “Animals representing Hillary Clinton”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/40 "2016-10-16T23:36:05Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Encouraging violence is not against the law, [actually](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio). > > But it is fucking stupid. IANAL but ruling that the government cannot constitutionally punish abstract advocacy of force or law violation is different than stating that specific calls for violence are prohibited. Advocating the arson of a specific property owned by a specific individual is not abstract, and instead meets the Douglas “speech is brigaded with action” standard that would be against the law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778.md?page=3)