# Oh dear, the violence has started **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 16, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778 "2016-10-16T22:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/121 "2016-10-17T05:17:35Z")
I’d like to make a joke about how maybe the Russians did it, but I can’t quite find the words. The situation we’ve come to is simply too awful for joking, and I’m afraid any comment, however wryly intended, would be subject to misinterpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/122 "2016-10-17T05:24:42Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t think the facts make any difference whatever. Most Trump’s supporters have proven that they are pretty much fact-immune. They will believe this was done by a Dem supporter no matter what. Trump’s response to this bombing was unprecedented, and went straight to dehumanising and blaming Clinton and the Democrats, by name. He avoided the usual ‘let’s wait and see, and not inflame an already serious situation’, in favour of leaping to ‘let’s inflame this as much as possible’. But then, this is the same candidate who skipped any ‘thoughts and prayers’, or even any consideration for the victims at all, after the Orlando tragedy, to take the chance to pause and admire his own brilliance :smack: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/123 "2016-10-17T05:34:17Z")
And nobody even says anything about the militant wing of fanatic libertarians. With a bombastic, charismatic, larger-than-lifelike leader like Johnson… ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/124 "2016-10-17T05:39:56Z")
> [@cuauhtemoc](#): > > It’s just that… Why would actual anti-Trump people do this _now?_ He’s been burning down his own campaign for weeks, as is obvious to anybody who’s paying any attention at all. It doesn’t make any sense. I dunno if the perpetrator(s) were thinking about this, but North Carolina is actually pretty important this election, not because of the presidential race, but for the Senate seat. According to 538 ([North Carolina | 2016 Senate Forecast | FiveThirtyEight](http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/senate/north-carolina/)), current polling has the Democrat behind by only 0.7% of the vote, and the overall trend is in her favor - one way or the other, it’s going to be very close, and control of the Senate could plausible hang in the balance. It will be interesting to see if this act of terrorism has a visible effect on that race. The candidates (unlike certain orange fascists) have each managed to tweet their condemnation of the attack without blaming it on their opponent, so that’s nice: [QUOTE=Deborah Ross (D)] We must all condemn the attack on the Republican HQ in Orange County. Violence has no place in our discourse. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Richard Burr (R)] There’s no place for this type of targeted violence. Grateful no one was injured. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/125 "2016-10-17T05:45:50Z")
If the flammable accelerant turns out to be organic canola oil, it was the Greens. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/126 "2016-10-17T05:47:43Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’m not sure diehard Trump supporters are going to appreciate any distinction between “unaffiliated radical leftists, not supporting Crooked Hillary” and “Crooked Hillary supporters”. To them, it’s essentially just the same enemy, in the same camp, with a slightly different agenda. They still need to TAKE THEIR COUNTRY BACK!!! from both groups tearing America apart. At least one Trump supporter tweeted in response to Hillary’s attack on the bombing, “Then why did you order it?” ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/127 "2016-10-17T05:48:48Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Hillary’s side burns down buildings, though they prefer to do it as a group activity. Trump’s side likes punching minorities in the face and shooting up abortion clinics. Not enough to go on yet. What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/128 "2016-10-17T06:04:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I have to admit, my first thought on hearing about this was “Reichstag”. But I’ll hold my judgment until more is known. Same here. When they catch who did it, that’s when I’ll know one side, the other, or neither, did it. Until then, I’m drawing no conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/129 "2016-10-17T06:04:47Z")
I started a Pit thread for this … it just seemed like a pittable offense, although on review I mostly avoided pittable language. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=807617](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=807617) As I mentioned over in that thread - there’s a gofundme page for donating to the rebuilding effort. I won’t link it but a search for “gofundme firebomb” will point you to it. I honestly think America might never recover from Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/130 "2016-10-17T06:14:26Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > That is horrendous. There are certainly dangerous idiots on both ends of the political spectrum – in this case, the left (or at least the anti-Trump). Let’s fervently hope this is the last such incident, against anyone. Thank goodness no one was hurt. Agreed but I fear this may not be the last such incident. This election cycle has polarized the general public and no matter how it all turns out we could be in for years of ugliness from extremists on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/131 "2016-10-17T06:31:53Z")
Also, because I’m too tired to read the whole thread - I want to say that the violence didn’t _start_ with this appalling act, as the thread title claims. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/132 "2016-10-17T07:42:44Z")
[Ashley Todd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashley_Todd_mugging_hoax) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/133 "2016-10-17T08:37:51Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I started a Pit thread for this … it just seemed like a pittable offense, although on review I mostly avoided pittable language. I’m not sure this incident warrants a Pit thread - it can be discussed in a civil manner with appropriate condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/134 "2016-10-17T08:46:02Z")
Yeah, you’re probably right. Still, it’s there, I guess, if anyone wants to relieve themself. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/135 "2016-10-17T09:05:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My suspicion as to the culprits is black flag anarchists. I think you mean “Black bloc” anarchists. Speaking as a “[black flag](http://www.anarchism.net/symbol_bf.htm)” anarchist myself… ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/136 "2016-10-17T09:08:55Z")
Wow, you people are tense. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/137 "2016-10-17T09:17:34Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Wow, you people are tense. Care to tell us what you mean by this? Sorry if our failure to enjoy a relaxed, meditative calm over this perturbed you somehow. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/138 "2016-10-17T09:33:45Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Since 1970 or so, the vast majority of the political violence done in the U.S has been done by liberals for liberal causes. I compiled a list in another thread, don’t feel like hunting it down, but the numbers were extremely clear. McVeigh & Nichols were liberals? Who knew… Possibly if you just tot up number of incidents, the Left might outstrip the Right. But outright total violence, sorry, nope, not buying it. Hunt down your thread and prove it. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/139 "2016-10-17T10:28:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Christ almighty, this is as repellent as Locrian’s post. It’s incredibly appropriate to criticize Clinton for her foreign policy measures, e.g., support for the Honduran coup. Doing so here is a shitty thing to do. Oh that’s right. To the ultra-statist being staunchly anti-violence is as “repellant” as enouraging violence. In the real world, things are not as compartmentalized as you seem to suggest. The distinction between foreign policy and domestic policy is a semantic one. When an organization like the state supports and funds chaos around the world and claims moral superiority for doing so, many confused individuals begin to see violence as a justifiable means to accomplish their goals. Of course the state thrives on this and often gains more power as a result of the chaos it manifests. Oh but nevermind the Queen of Chaos and her killings, this is Trump’s fault because he says mean words. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778/140 "2016-10-17T10:53:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > NC Dems start $10k GoFundMe page to reopen NC GOP location, collects $13k in 4 hours. > [https://www.gofundme.com/reopen-a-nc-republican-office-2ukuprzy?rcid=68294d9c940811e68f3fbc764e065f4f](https://www.gofundme.com/reopen-a-nc-republican-office-2ukuprzy?rcid=68294d9c940811e68f3fbc764e065f4f) This is excellent. > [@romansperson](#): > > \*\*Left Hand of Dorkness’ \*\*idea of anarchists being responsible is interesting - the ones here are strongly feminist, anti-racist and anti-capitalist, but violence really isn’t their style. Also, as far as I can tell in the photos that have been shared so far, I don’t see any anarchist tags, so if it was someone in that movement, they’re probably acting on their own. I think **asahi’s** idea of someone on the fringe left being responsible for this to be more likely. With Mr. Dibble’s correction (sorry, Dibble, that was totally a brain fart on my part), there’s an important distinction here. Most anarchists I’ve known are as you describe them. Black bloc (not flag) anarchists are different: they tend to like to stir shit up through low-level crime like vandalism. Couple of years ago some black bloc anarchists came to my town, threw some bricks through store windows, vandalized some newspaper machines, made a general awfulness of downtown, all to celebrate May Day. The local anarchists, many of whom I consider friends, were irate. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Oh that’s right. To the ultra-statist being staunchly anti-violence is as “repellant” as enouraging violence. > … > Oh but nevermind the Queen of Chaos and her killings, this is Trump’s fault because he says mean words. Oh for fuck’s sake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-dear-the-violence-has-started/768778.md?page=8)