# Oh God! Oh God! Civilization 5 is coming to town **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553 "2010-02-18T23:09:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/81 "2010-03-01T22:32:34Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > I was kidding, I don’t think crop rotation would really be that interesting So you’re not a New Zealander, then? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/82 "2010-03-01T22:42:27Z")
What I would like to see is something like attrition and zones of control - something to add a bit more strategy to the warfare aspect. Right now, with Civ IV all you need is the right scissors-rock-paper mix of units plus a siege train of some sort, and you can take city after city, no hassle, regardless of terrain and distance from your cities. Forts are effectively useless because they are easy to bypass and do not really, exept under unusual conditions, guard anything. The AI has a habit of putting together a single main army and, if you beat that, garrisoning each of its cities with the remaining units - easy to beat ‘in detail’. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/83 "2010-03-01T22:51:43Z")
I want Civ 4 for border management and city placement. I want HEarts of Iron 2 for Military tech and Grand Strategy I want Diplomacy for… uh… Diplomacy. And a Total War for actual battles. And Sim City for city building, of course. I suppose the HoI concept of tech-tree could be adapted for all tech. That would work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/84 "2010-03-02T05:42:03Z")
> [@](#): > > What I would like to see is something like attrition I’d like to see workers die off after X number of moves. Moves would be terrain improvements or just plain moving from one tile to another. Obviously, the worker would have to travel quite a bit in order to die just from traveling, but I think it would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/85 "2010-03-02T05:59:49Z")
What’s also concerning is that _Victoria II_ is coming out later this year… I’m not sure anyone has enough time for two “Conquer The World” games. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/86 "2010-03-02T06:01:30Z")
It’d be neat to be able to zoom down to “street view” in cities. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/87 "2010-03-02T08:58:12Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Not to mention the fact that call to power was a blatant Civ knock off made by another company, so it’s not even a fair criticism that that’s what happens when you “mess with the formula”. > > Anyway, they changed some fairly fundamental things in the transition from 3 to 4 and I think 4 is a far FAR superior product as a result, so I’m all for more changes in 5. So far, only the even-numbered civs have been all that good. The odd ones are always brand new sweeping brilliant innovations that turn out to be kinda shitty (I’m including the first civ, which was not an objectively good game and you’re all just fooling yourselves). The even-numbered civs take those brilliant (but shitty) innovations and actually make something fun out of them. So maybe 5 will suck after all, but I’m so freaking excited for 6. ---
**Author:** ![Walther\_Ego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8dc957/32.png) [@Walther\_Ego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walther_Ego)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/88 "2010-03-02T11:16:23Z")
I’m also tired of the rock-paper-scissors warfare. This is a strategy game so I want to see only few units as armies. You should be able to build an army as a unit but have only one army per hexagon. An army should be a composition of the troop types you can build but moves as a unit. The army’s capability of reconnaissance is the capability of it’s fastest troops but speed the speed of it’s slowest troops. In other words, I want the stack to be one unit, at least for some time and usúally permanently. Attacking one unit at a time is not warfare but battle-chess and real armies attack as whole unless ordered otherwise. But I would also want to see that you can build small number of troops to enhance performance. For instance, I have an army as a garrison with 9 parts of spearmen and 1 part of archers. I obtain horses so I build 1 part of horsemen and the reconnaissance and catching prisorers capability of the army increases. But this one part does not need to be an amount that can be put to the field independently, otherwise we are back in games which have gazillion micromanaged units on map. Also, armies don’t quite self sacrifice in a death match in real life. Most of the winning army should survive. In most cases, much of the loosing army should survive. I think in this way the focus is on building good/big/not-too-expensive armies and not in micromanaging them in the field. Number of units on map is small but still understanding how powerful you are very important. If you want to micromanage 50 spearmen play Total War. That’s what I do almost daily. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/89 "2010-03-02T14:44:20Z")
There’s a trailer, but no gameplay footage. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYFQRd1sY5E](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYFQRd1sY5E) ---
**Author:** ![HotSmoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d9b06d/32.png) [@HotSmoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HotSmoke)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/90 "2010-03-02T15:42:10Z")
OMG a new Civilization. This is great news. I would love to have a street level view as well,that would be really cool. I’d like more indication that my cities are doing well…or badly… I hope the other world leaders continue to act like petulant crybabies. I deny them stuff just for that because I think it’s pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/91 "2010-03-02T17:26:38Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > There’s a trailer, but no gameplay footage. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYFQRd1sY5E](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYFQRd1sY5E) And it’s narrated by Goliath from Gargoyles no less! This game needs to have come out like yesterday! SQUEEE! ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/92 "2010-03-03T10:44:28Z")
I didn’t see this thread earlier but just got back from 3 weeks holiday to this great news!! Finite resources looks like an interesting addition. One horse means one horse unit etc. > [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > If I had to choose one feature to add, I’d pick a religion system like in the last few Total War titles: Each region tracks the religous breakdown of its population in percentages. Missionaries and religous buildings shift the percentage towards their religion each turn. The greater the proportion of a regions population that has a religion other than your state religion, the harder it is to maintain order. > > A Civ game could take this idea and expand upon it. Instead of a public order bonus for having a region mostly your state religion, you could have a bonus based on your religon civic. In Civ IV terms, a theocracy would, instead of a flat +2 experience bonus, get +1 at 60%, +2 at 75%, and +3 above 90%. The build bonus from organized religion could be more gradual; maybe even 1% per point above 50%. > > At the very least, make it so that the presence of seven different major religions in a city isn’t always harmonious. Religion has been removed. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Is there going to be an improvement that makes me not suck balls at it? Maybe something that doesn’t lead to my getting ass raped by stacks of death as soon as I reach the industrial/modern age and start heading for the space race victory (my favorite). The one military unit per tile change will stop stacks of death. It’ll become waves of death with bombardment. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/93 "2010-03-03T11:59:44Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > Religion has been removed. Cite??? :eek::mad::eek::mad::eek::mad: ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/94 "2010-03-03T13:17:13Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Cite??? :eek::mad::eek::mad::eek::mad: I can’t access most gaming websites from work but it’s mentioned here: [http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=190296](http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=190296) A later thread in the same (Civ 5) sub-forum discusses the removal. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/95 "2010-03-03T15:45:37Z")
Thanks - just checked out the apolyton forums and it seems you are correct. That’s a shame as I liked religion, but possibly it is there in an abstracted form. Another major change seems to be one-hex-one-unit, so say goodbye to the stack o’death (no bad thing in my mind). I guess we should wait for some kind of official preview of features before dissing it for what it does and doesn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Roulette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Roulette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roulette)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/96 "2010-03-03T16:42:55Z")
Removing the stack of death is good. but I’m not sold on 1 unit per square. Seems to go too far in the other direction. For example, how do I protect my settlers? Do I have to go around workers? What about allied units in my way? Finally, what about cities? Can I garrison more than 1 unit? Are new units created outside of the city already has a unit? Just… a lot of questions about a fairly major overhaul of the unit system. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/97 "2010-03-03T17:08:03Z")
> [@Roulette](#): > > Removing the stack of death is good. but I’m not sold on 1 unit per square. Seems to go too far in the other direction. For example, how do I protect my settlers? Do I have to go around workers? What about allied units in my way? Finally, what about cities? Can I garrison more than 1 unit? Are new units created outside of the city already has a unit? > > Just… a lot of questions about a fairly major overhaul of the unit system. I believe that it’s 1 military unit and civil units don’t have that limitation. Don’t know about cities or allied units. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/98 "2010-03-05T21:42:07Z")
Oooh, looking forward to this. I reinstall and play Civ4 every once in a while, but having a new system to learn will be even better. Unfortunately, hexes mean I can’t model tile production values in Excel… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/99 "2010-03-06T03:41:22Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > Unfortunately, hexes mean I can’t model tile production values in Excel… Not horizontally, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553/100 "2010-03-06T04:39:27Z")
I don’t know if “one unit per tile” is such a brilliant idea - seems to me it would entail lots and lots of micromanaging of units. Even if you don’t want to get into “stack of doom” considerations, moving a dozen units at once is neat and tidy. Having to micro the tile they all can end in with their current movement allowance, AND being useful next turn ? Hmmm… I kind of fear it’s going to turn Civ into Hearts of Iron. Besides, stacks of death aren’t really a problem per se - if a civ can produce more units than yours faster, it will crush you if a war ever breaks out, period. That’s true to history, and that’s true whether you have huge unkillable stacks or endless waves of attrition. But then again, I’m always against new mechanisms and iterations of a given franchise. I’d always like them to spend their time to create some absurdly crafty AI for a known good game, than churn out an entirely new one :). Guess we’ll see how it works in practice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-god-oh-god-civilization-5-is-coming-to-town/529553.md?page=6)