# Oh goodie. Now we have the political sexist take on who gets to be called "Dr" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 14, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973 "2020-12-14T00:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/1 "2020-12-14T00:51:12Z")
Recent column in the Wall Street Journal begins: > [@](#): > > “Madame First Lady — Mrs. Biden — Jill — kiddo,” begins the piece. “Any chance you might drop the ‘Dr.’ before your name? ‘Dr. Jill Biden’ sounds and feels fraudulent, not to say a touch comic.” Apparently the columnist, Joseph Epstein, B.A., thinks that Dr Biden shouldn’t be using her doctorate as a form of address. We had that discussion of non-medical doctorates here last year, of course, but as a question of academic nomenclature, without referring to female holders of doctorates as “kiddo”, “fraudulent” and “comic”: > [@Use of the title "Doctor"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/use-of-the-title-doctor/852341): > > I had a friend who got his PhD from a prestigious US university. He insisted on bring introduced (in social as well as professional settings) as “Doctor John Doe”. In my mind - at least in a social setting - the title “Doctor” should only be used by physicians, dentists, and veterinarians. When I look at non-fiction books (and magazines) from the 1920’s and 1930’s, the title of “Doctor” is tossed about freely - especially for Europeans. In many European countries at the time, just getting a de… But, what else should one expect from the _Wall Street Journal_, that bastion of enlightened thought? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/2 "2020-12-14T00:57:03Z")
Epstein apparently was a lecturer at Northwestern until 2002, as a lecturer in English. Northwestern has issued a statement: > [@](#): > > While we firmly support academic freedom and freedom of expression, we do not agree with Mr. Epstein’s opinion and believe the designation of doctor is well deserved by anyone who has earned a Ph.D., an Ed.D. or an M.D. > > Northwestern is firmly committed to equity, diversity and inclusion, and strongly disagrees with Mr. Epstein’s misogynistic views… > **[University statement on Joseph Epstein](https://news.northwestern.edu//news.northwestern.edu/stories/2020/12/joseph-epstein-statement/?fj=1)** > > Northwestern is firmly committed to equity, diversity and inclusion, and strongly disagrees with Joseph Epstein’s misogynistic views. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/3 "2020-12-14T00:58:47Z")
NPR article on it: > **[Op-Ed Urging Jill Biden To Drop The 'Dr.' Sparks Outrage Online](https://www.npr.org/2020/12/13/946068319/op-ed-urging-jill-biden-to-drop-the-dr-sparks-outrage-online)** > > The widely panned opinion piece addressed Jill Biden as "kiddo" and advised her to "drop the doc." The incoming first lady holds two master's degrees and a doctorate in education. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/4 "2020-12-14T01:07:57Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > [from the Wall Street Journal] > “Madame First Lady — Mrs. Biden — Jill — kiddo,” begins the piece. This is a pretty good reason for her to continue to use it. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/5 "2020-12-14T01:19:10Z")
The WSJ needs to read up on Alan Keyes. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/6 "2020-12-14T01:20:41Z")
Li’l Joe kiddo can bite my shiny metal ass. --Dr. **susan**. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/7 "2020-12-14T01:22:11Z")
He was already a racist and homophobe, and now he has come out as a misogynist. Quelle surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/8 "2020-12-14T01:42:10Z")
Well, the Department of State has never had a problem with [Dr. Condoleeza Rice](https://2001-2009.state.gov/secretary/index.htm) and her puny poly-sci PhD. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/9 "2020-12-14T01:42:11Z")
Shiny metal ass? Dr. Susan? Wait, your last name isn’t Calvin, is it? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/10 "2020-12-14T01:48:16Z")
Using Dr. for a non-medical person is apparently confusing to some people. [Whoopi Goldberg Says Jill Biden Should Be Surgeon General (mediaite.com)](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/whoopi-goldberg-corrects-after-saying-hell-of-a-doctor-jill-biden-should-be-surgeon-general-shes-an-educator/) 😁 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/11 "2020-12-14T01:56:43Z")
Might be time for Whoopi to take a vacation and recharge. That’s pretty embarrassing. * * * Joseph Epstein is apparently a complete ass. I’m surprised the WSJ printed it though. How low have their standards dropped since Murdoch bought them? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/12 "2020-12-14T02:08:33Z")
I don’t think there’s any need to call oneself doctor unless you’re in a professional setting. Dr. Biden should certainly be called Dr. Biden by her students. **Sr. Weasel** is Dr. Weasel to his clients, and of course, his mother. There’s no need in other settings unless, maybe, someone is asking for your expertise.\* \*Funny story. We are donors to the organization I work for. My coworker asked if he should be in the system as Mr. Weasel or. Dr. Weasel. I said, “Aw, hell. Call him doctor. He worked hard.” I guess I think it’s okay if the person really wants to call him that. Our dentist enthusiastically refers to him as Doctor also. But if he demanded that others call him Doctor, I’d die of embarrassment. (I agree this guy sounds like a misogynist ass.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/13 "2020-12-14T02:10:58Z")
More from the article: > Your degree is, I believe, an Ed.D., a doctor of education, earned at the University of Delaware through a dissertation with the unpromising title “Student Retention at the Community College Level: Meeting Students’ Needs." I assume the author’s heart sank when he looked up her dissertation title and realized there was nothing in it he could ridicule as “inscrutable postmodern jargon.” ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/14 "2020-12-14T02:41:50Z")
Definitely an icky level of class snobbery in referring to that as an “unpromising title,” too. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/15 "2020-12-14T03:02:56Z")
I see no reason for her to not use the title. In an informal setting where everyone else is Janet or Bob or Lisa, then insisting on Dr. so and so is pretentious. But if settings where other people are Mr. Smith and Ms. Jones, then Dr. Biden is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/16 "2020-12-14T03:27:15Z")
_Sweet Jesus!!_ > **[Perspective | The Wall Street Journal column about Jill Biden is worse than...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/dr-jill-biden-wall-street-journal/2020/12/13/e43883a4-3d45-11eb-8db8-395dedaaa036_story.html)** > > Columnist Joseph Epstein suggested Dr. Jill Biden should drop her honorific. She should use it forever. Bottom line: Epstein is an honorary Ph.D. (Projecting his Dishonesty) (Article is behind a paywall). ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/17 "2020-12-14T03:30:23Z")
Epstein is very upset that they’re giving out doctorates like candy, and yet he still doesn’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/18 "2020-12-14T03:51:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I don’t think there’s any need to call oneself doctor unless you’re in a professional setting. In a news article, or other public reference, I would damn well be expected to be referred to as Dr. Colibri. That’s not “calling oneself a doctor,” that’s accurate reporting of one’s expertise. I don’t expect to be addressed as “Dr.” in a casual setting, but Jill Biden deserves the title when she is referred to as a public figure. Epstein’s position is deeply sexist. His use of “kiddo” in referring to Dr. Biden is deliberately offensive unless he happens to be a personal friend of hers. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/19 "2020-12-14T03:56:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > His use of “kiddo” in referring to Dr. Biden is deliberately offensive unless he happens to be a personal friend of hers. Ima go way out on a limb and guess he ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/20 "2020-12-14T03:59:03Z")
Personally if I had my way, only medical professionals would be called “Doctor” or “Dr.”. BUT since that train has left the station- he is pretty much wrong, wrong wrong. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WrjwaqZfjIY/hqdefault.jpg "Dr Cox - Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973.md?page=2)