# Oh goodie. Now we have the political sexist take on who gets to be called "Dr" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 14, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973 "2020-12-14T00:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/203 "2020-12-17T20:55:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This reasoning should then apply to physicians with M.D. or D.O. degrees. While I will make snide comments about an MD not being a “real doctor”, physicians have a far stronger claim to calling themselves “doctor” than do lawyers. First of all, there’s a long and widely-recognized tradition of physicians being called “doctor”, to the extent that, in most (but not all) contexts, it’s become the default meaning of the word. And second, an MD is the highest degree for a physician, but not so for a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/204 "2020-12-17T20:55:54Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Know a guy who got his at Univ of North Dakota in **entomology**. because he was living there because his wife was from there . His dissertation was about stat software. I am pretty sure that would not **fly** at a bigger school. (bolding mine) I saw what you did there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/205 "2020-12-17T21:05:49Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > at small schools it’s easier to get a PhD Just to note: her doctorate is from the University of Delaware: - Not a small school (~24,000 students) - Classified as a “[Doctoral university - very high research activity](https://carnegieclassifications.iu.edu/lookup/view_institution.php?unit_id=130943)” - Is a land grant, sea grant, and space grant institution - Founded in 1843, but traces its academic roots back to 1743 In other words: it’s a large, established, research-oriented university. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/206 "2020-12-17T21:08:27Z")
It’s the Harvard of Delaware. ---
**Author:** ![Tabco](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tabco/32/7644_2.png) [@Tabco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabco)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/207 "2020-12-17T21:35:27Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Thinking “Dr.” has to mean a physician is kind of like thinking “engineer” has to mean somebody who drives a train. It so happens that the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying had a go-around with a man named Mats Järlström who titled himself an “engineer” in the context of traffic signal timing. Although he graduated with a degree in engineering, the OSBEELS argued he couldn’t use the title of “engineer” without a license. A federal judge ruled that although he couldn’t claim to be a professional engineer (PE) he could generically describe himself as an engineer. Read more about it [here](https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2018/12/federal-judge-finds-state-law-governing-who-is-an-engineer-violates-free-speech.html). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/208 "2020-12-17T22:21:34Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Not a problem. Dr. Biden has delivered a child. Daughter, Ashley, born 1981. This reminds me of when I went to the OBGYN for my last pregnancy. The nurse midwife handed me a pamphlet that said, “Who Will Deliver Your Baby?” with a list of staff members below it. The midwife crossed out “Who” and wrote “YOU” in giant letters. “YOU will deliver your baby.” I mean she wasn’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/209 "2020-12-17T23:59:19Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Maybe the author is indeed a huge misogynist and he just had to find a way to belittle Jill Biden, and this is the only thing he could hold against her. Ya think? > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Well, 4 years ago the liberals were criticizing the future First Lady of the alleged party of morals and family values over the fact that she had posed for naked photos that showed her fondling her own genitalia and stimulating an oral sex act with another woman…so both sides. I mostly saw this as being used to point out conservative hypocrisy. I don’t remember much actual criticism od her posing naked. > [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > I missed a step and jumped in this thread late–why is _anyone_ nitpicking her dissertation? Did the wingnuts dredge it up out of hatefulness of her level of degree? Yep. This is standard Republican behavior. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/210 "2020-12-18T00:40:51Z")
So I’d have been better off doing porn than getting a doctorate? Damn it! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/211 "2020-12-18T06:55:18Z")
A brief perusal of some popular websites indicates that there is a fair degree of apparent overlap between the two careers. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/212 "2020-12-18T14:19:14Z")
I don’t think anyone actually read my dissertation and I’m sure it’s full of typos. Some schools make you go through a rigorous proofing process (TAMU IIRC). Not Yale! The only real guidance was about margin sizes and that it not be “overly long”. The manufactured outrage about this is a real snoozer. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/213 "2020-12-18T14:48:23Z")
> [@Tabco](#): > > It so happens that the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying had a go-around with a man named Mats Järlström who titled himself an “engineer” in the context of traffic signal timing. Although he graduated with a degree in engineering, the OSBEELS argued he couldn’t use the title of “engineer” without a license. A federal judge ruled that although he couldn’t claim to be a professional engineer (PE) he could generically describe himself as an engineer. The requirement for holding a PE license to use the title “engineer” is pretty common. When I worked for large corporations they would (1) tell you not to use the word “engineer” on your business card if your work location was in one of the states with the PE requirement or (2) provide job titles that did not include the word “engineer”. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/214 "2020-12-18T14:50:35Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I don’t think anyone actually read my dissertation and I’m sure it’s full of typos. Some schools make you go through a rigorous proofing process (TAMU IIRC). Not Yale! The only real guidance was about margin sizes and that it not be “overly long”. Getting my dissertation past my doctoral committee was a piece of cake compared to getting it past the format police. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/215 "2020-12-18T15:17:33Z")
Yeah, one of my classmates had to resubmit her thesis three times because, in the time it took her to reformat it to meet the requirements, the requirements had changed again. We did eventually get the school to say “…or in the format of a well-established journal in the student’s field”, though, and that solved that (especially since all of the top well-established journals in physics ask for the same format) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/216 "2020-12-18T18:17:34Z")
Yeah, I had to reformat everything because my quotation tables used vertical as well as horizontal lines. The resulting officially correct tables are much harder to read. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/217 "2020-12-18T19:11:08Z")
There are also MD-PhD degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/218 "2020-12-19T15:42:55Z")
Yes, I was thinking that as well. An MD is not necessarily a terminal degree. A holder of the MD can go and and get a Ph.D. As well, a person can earn an MD and never qualify to practise medicine, if they’re more interested in research options. Would someone who holds an MD but is not qualified to practise medicine be entitled to be called “Doctor”? Why or why not? I would think so; they hold a doctorate. ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/219 "2020-12-19T15:52:53Z")
An MD actually is a terminal degree in medicine because there is no such thing as a Ph.D. in medicine. MD/PhD’s don’t get their Ph.D. in medicine; they get it in biochemistry, pharmacology, biomedical engineering, etc. I’m actually surprised that even this crowd is coming to such a strong defense of Jill Biden. The Ed.D. is notorious for being one of the most Mickey-Mouse degrees out there. It’s exhibit A in the trend of degree inflation, a degree that exists only so that teachers who want to go into educational administration can claim they have more credentials than the average teacher. Pretty pretentious of a holder of it to go around insisting on being called “doctor,” at least outside of their own professional setting. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/220 "2020-12-19T16:04:37Z")
As I mentioned in my OP, we had an extensive debate on this issue last spring. This thread is sort of a continuation of that debate, with politics and gender tossed in for good measure. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/221 "2020-12-19T16:42:11Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > The Ed.D. is notorious for being one of the most Mickey-Mouse degrees out there. It’s exhibit A in the trend of degree inflation, a degree that exists only so that teachers who want to go into educational administration can claim they have more credentials than the average teacher. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > As I mentioned in my OP, we had an extensive debate on this issue last spring. This thread is sort of a continuation of that debate, with politics and gender tossed in for good measure. Yes, but that earlier thread focused mainly on Ph.D.s being called “Doctor.” I’m interested in whether anyone can refute or support Arcite’s claim that an Ed.D. degree, specifically, is “one of the most Mickey Mouse degrees out there.” ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/222 "2020-12-19T16:48:13Z")
> [@Arcite](#): > > An MD actually is a terminal degree in medicine because there is no such thing as a Ph.D. in medicine. MD/PhD’s don’t get their Ph.D. in medicine; they get it in biochemistry, pharmacology, biomedical engineering, etc. It may not get labeled “medicine”, but it’s still typically under the umbrella if “medical science”, sometimes formally so. Obviously not always (two organic chemists come to mind.) And yes, Ed.Ds have their reputation. But at least they require some sort of original research contribution, whereas an M “D” is just a vocational training program. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973.md?page=12)