# Oh goodie. Now we have the political sexist take on who gets to be called "Dr" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 14, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973 "2020-12-14T00:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/243 "2020-12-21T00:33:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The suggestion that she’s “Dr. Biden” in some circumstances and “Mrs. Biden” in others is utterly ridiculous. The only reason to deliberately use “Mrs. Biden” is to belittle her and diminish her achievements. In our current societal context, I think this is correct. If there is a circumstance in which _any_ title is appropriate, if “Dr.” is available, then it’s belittling to use “Mr.,” “Ms.,” or “Mrs.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/244 "2020-12-21T06:01:00Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Joseph Epstein is apparently a complete ass. I’m surprised the WSJ printed it though. How low have their standards dropped since Murdoch bought them? Low enough to be owned by Rupert Murdoch. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/245 "2020-12-21T13:20:33Z")
True, but even after News Corp bought it back in 2007, it seemed like the WSJ remained a basically respectable paper specializing in Business. I haven’t really looked at the paper in about 6 years. An editorial like this wouldn’t have been printed in 2014 from what I recall. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/246 "2020-12-21T14:18:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We are not talking about social settings, we are specifically talking about formal address and how she would be referred to in the news. > > If you saved an aircraft from a critical situation, would you be referred to in the news as Mr. Guy, or Captain Guy? Good point. I suppose I’m speaking mostly about truly social / informal settings, whereas Mr. WSJ Turdbird was working more in the formal / official setting. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/247 "2020-12-21T14:44:48Z")
So do you think the Whitehouse should refer to her as “Mrs. Biden” or Dr. Biden"? I can see saying that Dr. Or Mrs. Biden could be pretentious and “Jill” is preferred. I don’t see a circumstance where “Mrs.” is not pretentious but “Dr” is. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/248 "2020-12-21T14:56:36Z")
Dr Biden. She earned it, and as some posters and women in the media have said, it’s an important message to get out there. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/249 "2020-12-21T15:31:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In our current societal context, I think this is correct. If there is a circumstance in which _any_ title is appropriate, if “Dr.” is available, then it’s belittling to use “Mr.,” “Ms.,” or “Mrs.” Another vote for this. My father, an MD, wasn’t a sticker for being called “Doctor,” but he did _not_ like being called “mister.” First name was fine, for “Doc” even. But never mister. How come no one remembers the _Maestro_ episode of Seinfeld? _[Jerry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Seinfeld_(character)) is frustrated that Elaine and George have no problem with Bob’s insistence on being called “Maestro” instead of his real name_ ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/250 "2020-12-21T16:09:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > At the grocery store? Who is calling you by name in the grocery store? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/251 "2020-12-21T16:12:01Z")
The cashier sometimes does after scanning my loyalty card. I assume it must be company policy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/252 "2020-12-21T17:20:58Z")
I run into people that I know at the grocery store all the time. A little less now with COVID and all, but still do. And in those situations, it would be very weird for them to call me by anything other than my first name. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/253 "2020-12-21T17:22:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Good point. I suppose I’m speaking mostly about truly social / informal settings, whereas Mr. WSJ Turdbird was working more in the formal / official setting. To analogize, it would be like someone insisting that they shouldn’t call you captain, as you are not a in charge of a naval vessel. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/254 "2020-12-21T17:30:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And in those situations, it would be very weird for them to call me by anything other than my first name. When Dr. Biden crosses paths with friends and neighbors at the grocery store, do we have any reason to believe that they don’t call her Jill. The pro-doctor side is not saying that she should never be addressed as Jill in informal settings. We’re saying that she should not be addressed or referred to as Mrs. Biden in any setting. Mrs. Biden and Ms. Biden are simply incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/255 "2020-12-21T17:32:10Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > When Dr. Biden crosses paths with friends and neighbors at the grocery store, do we have any reason to believe that they don’t call her Jill. Nope. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > The pro-doctor side is not saying that she should never be addressed as Jill in informal settings. We’re saying that she should not be addressed or referred to as Mrs. Biden in any setting. Mrs. Biden and Ms. Biden are simply incorrect. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/256 "2020-12-21T17:36:02Z")
It’s another bit of “proof” of Biden’s corruption! 🙄. Obviously Dr Biden just threw her paper together any old which way and bribed the school to grant her a doctorate! ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/257 "2020-12-21T17:51:51Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > Obviously Dr Biden just threw her paper together any old which way and bribed the school to grant her a doctorate! You must have meant hired an illegal Immigrant to put together her dissertation any old way… ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/258 "2020-12-22T17:00:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > In our current societal context, I think this is correct. If there is a circumstance in which _any_ title is appropriate, if “Dr.” is available, then it’s belittling to use “Mr.,” “Ms.,” or “Mrs.” > > Another vote for this. My father, an MD, wasn’t a sticker for being called “Doctor,” but he did _not_ like being called “mister.” First name was fine, for “Doc” even. But never mister. > > How come no one remembers the _Maestro_ episode of Seinfeld? > > _[Jerry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Seinfeld_(character)) is frustrated that Elaine and George have no problem with Bob’s insistence on being called “Maestro” instead of his real name_ _and then Elaine calls him by his first name when they are getting intimate, and he corrects her_. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/259 "2020-12-22T17:51:18Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > They typically work in research. I met a guy who did that. Some become lawyers. We’ve got a couple of them in the patent law division of the law firm at which I work. Also some PhDs. So their JD degrees don’t entitle them to be called “Doctor,” but their other degrees do. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/260 "2021-01-05T08:29:30Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > So their JD degrees don’t entitle them to be called “Doctor,” but their other degrees do. “Entitle” ? I think if someone claims entitlement, they’ve lost the argument. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/261 "2021-01-05T15:52:02Z")
You mean he has an honorary doctorate. There’s no such thing as an honorary PhD. People who have honorary doctorates have a “Doctor of Letters” degree. A PhD is the most difficult of all the doctorates (including MDs, there’s an argument, because MDs are artificially made difficult with grueling schedules for third-year students and interns, but it doesn’t have to be that way). People with PhD have had to propose, have accepted, gathered a committee for, **written** (which can take years-- just the writing, not the research, took my mother two years, and everyone commented on her speed), and successfully defended, a dissertation, and that’s all _after_ the coursework. And candidates are on their own to procure their research and travel grants. My father earned his PhD before he was 30, and was considered a wunderkind. This is why you sometimes hear a distinction made: two ministers may both be doctors, but one has a D.Div, and one has a PhD in Theology, or Religious Studies. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/262 "2021-01-05T16:55:32Z")
Question about the bolded part: is that true across all fields? In engineering school, we had one professor who was a Doctor of Science.(the others’ doctorates were Ph.D.s) and he was widely considered more prestigious. Are there even D.Sc. degrees awarded in non-science fields? ETA: for some reason the bolded part didn’t show up in my post. I was referring to: **A PhD is the most difficult of all the doctorates** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973.md?page=14)