# Oh goodie. Now we have the political sexist take on who gets to be called "Dr" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 14, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973 "2020-12-14T00:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/122 "2020-12-14T22:09:51Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I googled “washington post jill biden” and none of the links in the first several I went through add the honorific Let’s monitor that and see if the “Dr” title is added in the future or they continue to be misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/123 "2020-12-14T22:13:00Z")
From an [article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/14/dr-jill-biden-wsj-oped/) in the Washington Post on this, “The Washington Post does not use the honorific for anyone, including those with a doctor of medicine.” ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/124 "2020-12-14T22:13:30Z")
I’m still failing to see what point you are trying to get at. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/125 "2020-12-14T22:15:06Z")
Did Joseph Epstein’s article say that the “doctor” title should only be used by men? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/126 "2020-12-14T22:16:11Z")
I don’t know. I don’t have access to the full article. But the tone of the first few paragraphs that’s available to read does sound misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/127 "2020-12-14T22:17:42Z")
Joseph Epstein’s own antecedents are such I do not blame anyone for presuming bad faith animus in his article. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/128 "2020-12-14T22:17:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But the tone of the first few paragraphs that’s available to read does sound **misogynistic**. What sounded misogynistic? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/129 "2020-12-14T22:23:12Z")
The last sentence for one. “Forget the small thrill of being Dr. Jill, and settle for the larger thrill of living for the next four years in the best public housing in the world as First Lady Jill Biden.” In other words, put aside your professional experience and training. Just be happy to be a housewife for four years. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/130 "2020-12-14T22:24:44Z")
And the very first line, with its “kiddo”. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/131 "2020-12-14T22:27:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > with its “kiddo” So that specifically means “female”? I’m not so sure about that. > **[“You Just Ran Into Two People From New York, Kiddo”: Rand Paul Becomes Latest...](https://jonathanturley.org/2019/10/19/you-just-ran-into-two-people-from-new-york-kiddo-rand-paul-becomes-latest-victim-of-restaurant-abuse/comment-page-1/)** > > I have previously written about my dismay over verbal and even physical attacks on politicians, particularly conservatives, in restaurants. Liberal couples and activists believe that they have lice… ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/132 "2020-12-14T22:32:44Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Just be happy to be a housewife for four years What you imagine in your head is not a replacement for what was actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/133 "2020-12-14T22:33:58Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > So that specifically means “female”? I’m not so sure about that. Nobody claimed that it specifically means “female.” It is specifically infantilizing and demeaning and patronizing. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/134 "2020-12-14T22:35:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It is specifically infantilizing and demeaning and patronizing. Exactly. The **guy is a jerk** but it had NOTHING to do with **misogyny**. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/135 "2020-12-14T22:42:44Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > What sounded misogynistic? > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The last sentence for one. “Forget the small thrill of being Dr. Jill, and settle for the larger thrill of living for the next four years in the best public housing in the world as First Lady Jill Biden.” In other words, put aside your professional experience and training. Just be happy to be a housewife for four years. Yes. From F.U.Shakespeare’s link back in Post #14: > [@](#): > > It was that sentence that sent me over the edge. … Because what it implies is that Jill Biden’s own accomplishments should not be as important as those which are conferred by her husband. She should accept this marital title and eschew her personal identity. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/136 "2020-12-14T22:45:49Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > with its “kiddo” > > So that specifically means “female”? I’m not so sure about that. It’s not specifically “female”, but unless you are using it as a term of endearment for an ex-lover / member of your crew of assassins you recently tried to have killed in a Quinton Tarantino movie, it’s a bit condescending (and in the movie “Kiddo” was the character’s actual last name). At the very least, it’s kind of a weird way to write. It’s be like titling your editorial “Loose the Dr, brah!” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/137 "2020-12-14T22:51:08Z")
I work on curing diseases in the lab. It’s not my fault that medical doctors are healing the sick inefficiently. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/138 "2020-12-14T22:55:26Z")
I would say that “kiddo” can be misogynist for the same reason “boy” can be racist. The latter is considered racist to use for an adult black man, as you would almost certainly never use it for an adult white man. The same is true here: it would be unlikely that someone would refer to a man of Dr. Biden’s age as “kiddo.” It’s a term mostly used for minors or possibly young adults, and even then only ones you know well. I also don’t see why Dr. and First Lady would need to be exclusive. If her First Lady title is relevant, I don’t see any reason they couldn’t refer to her as “First Lady Dr. Jill Biden” at first, and then Dr. Biden or “the first lady” thereafter, whichever fits better. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/139 "2020-12-14T23:02:49Z")
The Washington Post’s policy is not to use the Dr. title for anyone. They say they sometimes slip, but generally, Anthony Fauci has been Anthony Fauci, the governments leading infectous disease expert…not Dr. Fauci. > **[As critics blast a ‘misogynistic’ op-ed on Jill Biden, a Wall Street Journal...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/14/dr-jill-biden-wsj-oped/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3eWpFOKpyBHPjN9_oQW69WJOvk5JnJzcDBClU0RGf0hWQI4XkRXYO85Qk)** > > Many people blasting the piece argued that the same standard would never be applied to a man in Jill Biden’s position. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/140 "2020-12-14T23:09:49Z")
> **[Who Should Be Called Dr.? Probably Not Jill Biden, Just as Lawyers Like Me...](https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/14/who-should-be-called-dr-probably-not-jill-biden-just-as-lawyers-like-me-arent/)** > > I didn't much care for the Wall Street Journal op-ed that said Jill Biden shouldn't be referred to using the... ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973/141 "2020-12-14T23:09:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > On use of “Dr.” in newspapers—most mainstream American newspapers follow Associated Press style, which would call for “Jane Doe” on first reference and “Doe” thereafter, unless the article referenced multiple members of the Doe family and some accommodation was require to avoid ambiguity. I’m old enough that I remember when this became the standard. Before this a man might be referred to by just his last name without an honorific, but a woman never was. It was odd to my ear to hear/read a woman referred to as just “Doe.” But I got used to it quite quickly. Now, it’s difficult to remember what it was like before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-goodie-now-we-have-the-political-sexist-take-on-who-gets-to-be-called-dr/927973.md?page=8)