# Oh how the times are changing. Corporal punishment. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 16, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693 "2014-09-16T23:26:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/61 "2014-09-19T21:46:51Z")
> [@liontamer](#): > > I really don’t see why you keep equating a swat on the ass with a punch in the face. If my wife makes a mistake, is it OK for me to give her a good hard swat on the ass? Not enough to leave a bruise, mind you, just enough to remind her about what she’s done, and to make sure that the behavior won’t continue in the future. ---
**Author:** ![liontamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b487fb/32.png) [@liontamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liontamer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/62 "2014-09-19T23:19:00Z")
We are talking about pre-verbal children not who ever you freaks hang out with. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/63 "2014-09-19T23:50:03Z")
We’re talking about pre-verbal children? Seriously? You’re going to smack a toddler? I remember when my children were pre-verbal. I don’t recall an epidemic of stove-touching, street crossing, dog-poking, knife-juggling, or poison-chugging, because we kept knives and poison and wolverines out of their reach, and didn’t let them wander around the streets by themselves. If your kid won’t listen because they’re pre-verbal, then how do you explain to them the connection between the beating and the behavior you’re trying to stop? Kid runs into traffic, and you smack him, how does he know why you smacked him? How many dog trainers beat dogs to achieve compliance? If you wouldn’t beat a dog, how can you beat a child? ---
**Author:** ![liontamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b487fb/32.png) [@liontamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liontamer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/64 "2014-09-20T00:55:56Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > We’re talking about pre-verbal children? Seriously? You’re going to smack a toddler? > > I remember when my children were pre-verbal. I don’t recall an epidemic of stove-touching, street crossing, dog-poking, knife-juggling, or poison-chugging, because we kept knives and poison and wolverines out of their reach, and didn’t let them wander around the streets by themselves. > > If your kid won’t listen because they’re pre-verbal, then how do you explain to them the connection between the beating and the behavior you’re trying to stop? Kid runs into traffic, and you smack him, how does he know why you smacked him? > > How many dog trainers beat dogs to achieve compliance? If you wouldn’t beat a dog, how can you beat a child? I am very glad I was raised no where near you. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/65 "2014-09-20T01:01:52Z")
> [@liontamer](#): > > I am very glad I was raised no where near you. I hope no children are being raised by you. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/66 "2014-09-20T01:29:46Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about a young toddler, and I laid out the specific circumstances around using it, and I wasn’t spanking for wrongdoing. > > If my spouse was somehow mentally incapacitated(drugged or delirious) and tried to run out on a highway I’d absolutely physically restrain her until she came to her senses. I find it interesting that you would physically restrain your drugged or delirious spouse, but you would hit your defenseless child for the same circumstances. How do you justify that? ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/67 "2014-09-20T01:31:30Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Okay, I’ll bite although I have told the story before on these boards. My second child had a tendency to be a bit wild and I was spanking him regularly, to little effect. He was probably 3 when my wife and I decided this wasn’t working. So we stopped cold turkey. And his behavior improved suddenly and dramatically. Our third child was never spanked. Our first was kind of placid and, while we spanked her once or twice, it never got to be a habit. Our spankings were rather mild. A whack of the palm through pants. I believe that none of our six grandchildren has ever been spanked. Which is not to say they don’t get disciplined. And they are all delightful. So what means discipline if not physical? “Time out?” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/68 "2014-09-20T01:36:37Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > So what means discipline if not physical? “Time out?” Are you asking this question because you want to know another poster’s thoughts on discipline, or are you asking because you can’t think of any other discipline besides hitting a small, defenseless child? ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/69 "2014-09-20T01:41:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Good point, but I think you are underestimating the effectiveness of an actual policeman telling a 4yr NOT TO TOUCH THE STOVE! 🙂 But are you seriously suggesting calling out the police for this situation? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/70 "2014-09-20T01:48:06Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > But are you seriously suggesting calling out the police for this situation? No, i’m not suggesting calling out the police for this situation. However, if the only choices I had for this situation were calling the police, or hitting a small, defenseless child, then calling the police is what I would do. Fortunately, I can use reasoning and intellect to determine better courses of action to instruct my children, and I don’t have to resort to the extremes, and I especially don’t have to resort to hitting a small, defenseless child because it is “easier” for me. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/71 "2014-09-20T01:48:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Are you asking this question because you want to know another poster’s thoughts on discipline, or are you asking because you can’t think of any other discipline besides hitting a small, defenseless child? Both actually, and they would have the same answer. I’ve heard it all my life “I wouldn’t let my kid do that, but I never spank them.” How do you go about stopping a kid from doing something then? I’ve been told “I just don’t let them.” So what system is used really? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/72 "2014-09-20T01:57:24Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > I’ve heard it all my life “I wouldn’t let my kid do that, but I never spank them.” How do you go about stopping a kid from doing something then? I’ve been told “I just don’t let them.” So what system is used really? Well, if you want personal anecdotes, i can give you a few: I took my son and daughter to a craft store so my son could buy some paints and brushes to decorate a wooden firetruck he made. While in the store, he decided it would be a good idea to hit his sister on the top of her head with the package of brushes (They were about 4 and 3 at this time). I told him he wasn’t getting any paints or brushes, and we left the store. I took my son and daughter to Target to look for birthday cards for their grandmother, and while there I told them they could look at toys but I wasn’t going to buy any for them that particular trip (they were about the same age as above). My daughter didn’t like that, and started throwing a tantrum. I put her over my shoulder and we left the store (without the cards, but my mother understood). My daughter didn’t want to pick up her toys one time and decided to throw a tantrum. I simply let her roll around the floor crying as she picked up the toys one by one as I cooked dinner. After about 45 minutes the toys were picked up and the crying was done. I’ve taught them since they could walk to hold my hand when crossing the street. Once, going to the playground across the street, they decided to run across the street without hand holding. Being a good parent, I was constantly looking for cars anyway as we approached the road (since I know what kids do). I don’t restrain them if there is no danger, hoping they know what to do. Well, this time they just went. And that resulted in no playground time that day. Surprisingly, no hitting of a small, defenseless child was needed in any of those scenarios. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/73 "2014-09-20T19:50:04Z")
My parents did all of the above – except when it came to running out into the street. If my sister or I just happened to do something like that (and it wasn’t necessarily when we were going to the playground or anywhere, really – we could just be standing in the yard), we got a smack on the behind. That was considered an extreme case. Or if one of us tried to touch the stove – we got our hand smacked away. I’m not saying what worked for my parents would work for you. But my parents weren’t abusive, and to say they were is ridiculous at best and downright fucked up at worst. ---
**Author:** ![liontamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b487fb/32.png) [@liontamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liontamer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/74 "2014-09-20T21:26:57Z")
I pretty much give up. Manson has his strong misguided opinions. Swatting a toddler is not the same as punching a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/75 "2014-09-20T23:34:58Z")
> [@liontamer](#): > > I pretty much give up. > Manson has his strong misguided opinions. > Swatting a toddler is not the same as punching a cop. If you consider the opinion that small, defenseless children should not be hit “misguided”, than I pretty much give up. Good luck with that. Nowhere has anyone said swatting a toddler is the same as punching a cop. ---
**Author:** ![liontamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b487fb/32.png) [@liontamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liontamer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/76 "2014-09-21T03:18:32Z")
Straw is straw. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/77 "2014-09-22T13:09:11Z")
> [@liontamer](#): > > Straw is straw. Way to continue with nonsensical postings as a way to justify hitting small, defenseless children. I’ve put forth no argument that compared hitting a small, defenseless child to hitting anything else, certainly not “punching a cop” You keep on thinking whatever you want, whatever lets you sleep at night after hitting small, defenseless children. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/78 "2014-09-22T16:28:42Z")
I have a four-year-old son, and the last thing I want is for him to be terrified of me. Adrian Peterson is a large dude and I can only imagine how frightened his kid must have been. I’m also a big guy and the few times that I’ve “lost it” consisted of me either stomping my foot on the kitchen floor, or smacking a book on a table and roaring “Stop it NOW!” and that was enough to scare my son into tears and make me feel terrible. Hitting a kid is just repulsive to me and is a breach of the trust and relationship that, in my opinion, a father and son should have. My job is to teach this child, and one of the things I’m teaching him is that hitting is wrong. It’s not an easy lesson for any four year old, but to try and teach a kid not to hit when you’re occasionally hitting him has to make it a hell of a lot harder. Louis CK has a bit in one of his comedy specials that is right on the fucking nose “_I really think it’s crazy that we hit our kids. Here’s the crazy part about it; kids are the only people in the world that you’re allowed to hit. Do you realize that? They’re the most vulnerable and the most destroyed by being hit but it’s totally OK to hit them. And they’re the only ones! if you hit a dog they will put you in jail for that shit. You can’t hit a person unless you can prove that they were trying to kill you. But a little tiny person with a head this big who trusts you implicitly: 'FUCK ‘EM, WHO GIVES A SHIT!’_” ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/79 "2014-09-22T17:12:46Z")
Spanking is a viable means of discipline. It should be the last resort, not the first, and it should be presented immediately as the direct result of the child’s action. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/80 "2014-09-22T17:32:38Z")
If I can discipline my child by spanking, why can’t I discipline my wife the same way? Note that it doesn’t do any good to tell me that the difference is obvious, since it isn’t obvious to me. You’ll have to explain it. If you can’t explain it, because it’s so obvious it can’t be explained, then maybe you’re not explaining it right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693.md?page=5)