# Oh how the times are changing. Corporal punishment. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 16, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693 "2014-09-16T23:26:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/81 "2014-09-22T18:03:19Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Spanking is a viable means of discipline. It should be the last resort, not the first, and it should be presented immediately as the direct result of the child’s action. Spanking is a viable means of delivering the message that you don’t approve of the child’s action. I’m not sure it’s a viable means of discipline, all the kid learns is not to do the thing that led to the spanking _when you’re around_. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/82 "2014-09-22T18:28:24Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If I can discipline my child by spanking, why can’t I discipline my wife the same way? > > Note that it doesn’t do any good to tell me that the difference is obvious, since it isn’t obvious to me. You’ll have to explain it. If you can’t explain it, because it’s so obvious it can’t be explained, then maybe you’re not explaining it right. I would also like to hear the answer to this question from people who are pro-spanking. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/83 "2014-09-22T20:18:30Z")
I never really thought much about spanking. My parents did spank (including the occasional wooden spoon or hairbrush and once the dreaded "pick your own switch). I do think I turned out okay. Now, I have a 20 month old. I am not allowed to spank my annoying coworker. I am not allowed to swat the annoying jerk talking in the theater. I’m not allowed to hit the person who cuts me off in traffic. Why am I allowed, actually ENCOURAGED to hit a small defenseless child who loves me and trusts me implicitly? I haven’t spanked him and hope never to do so. When he’s doing something naughty, I redirect or remove the temptation. Yesterday at the park, he didn’t want to hold my hand while going down the stairs. Fine, you don’t get to walk down the stairs by yourself, mommy carries you. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/84 "2014-09-22T20:30:47Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > Spanking is a viable means of delivering the message that you don’t approve of the child’s action. > > I’m not sure it’s a viable means of discipline, all the kid learns is not to do the thing that led to the spanking _when you’re around_. When you are around? Then you have not raised them correctly no matter your discipline method IMO. 😛 Question for all: Anybody changed their mind about their behavior because of this thread. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/85 "2014-09-22T20:40:09Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If I can discipline my child by spanking, why can’t I discipline my wife the same way? > > Note that it doesn’t do any good to tell me that the difference is obvious, since it isn’t obvious to me. You’ll have to explain it. If you can’t explain it, because it’s so obvious it can’t be explained, then maybe you’re not explaining it right. If my spouse kept doing something that I felt had a large probability in resulting in him getting badly physically hurt, and he didn’t seem to understand or follow what I said verbally to that effect, why yes, I’d resort to physical action. …Most grownup infractions don’t fall into that category. The only thing I can think of is maybe if my husband were half asleep and not quite acting like himself? (I would probably not actually _spank_ my husband. But I would much rather spank a child than hit him or her forcefully on the arm or shove him/her in the shoulder, which is what I would do to an adult in that situation. I’d think there would be a FAR greater possibility of injury in doing that than in spanking the child in a “padded” region.) I am in no way saying it’s okay to beat a child. When I say “spanking” I mean hard enough to sting, not hard enough to leave a mark or hurt more than ten seconds later. And I only sanction it as a last resort for a very young child that is repeatedly doing something physically dangerous that a) for some reason can’t be dealt with by removal or changing the situation (which most can), and b) is something the child knows not to do. (And, as I’ve said, I’ve never spanked my daughter and intend never to. But I still don’t have a problem with the entire concept of spanking.) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/86 "2014-09-22T20:47:17Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > When you are around? Then you have not raised them correctly no matter your discipline method IMO. 😛 > > Question for all: > Anybody changed their mind about their behavior because of this thread. :rolleyes: There is always hope…otherwise why does ANYONE post to any topic on this board?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/87 "2014-09-22T21:02:09Z")
Now, the interesting thing is, I was spanked on occasion as a child, and I don’t particularly feel bad about that, or upset with my parents. What I remember very strongly and negatively from my childhood is being screamed at and being shamed. THAT I am NOT a fan of doing to a poor little defenseless kid. (I wouldn’t do it to discipline my spouse or at work, either, to apply your metric.) I think it is far worse than spanking. ETA: especially the shaming part. A light smack on the butt is nothing compared to emotional shaming that still makes my stomach knot up as an adult. I admit to my shame that I’ve yelled at my kid (though not shamed her) a couple of times, and bitterly regretted it each time. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/88 "2014-09-22T21:29:57Z")
I readily admit that screaming at a child, or belittling them, or emotionally manipulating them, is a lot more abusing than occasionally popping them one. Kids will get over an occasional smack, as long as the parents are otherwise loving. Still, if I gave my wife an occasional smack–hard enough to sting but not hard enough to leave a bruise–she could get over that as well. But why should she have to? I also wouldn’t scream at my wife, or shame her, or emotionally manipulate her, which in my mind would be worse than smacking her occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/89 "2014-09-23T00:16:26Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Depends on whether it’s cooked or not. > > If you’ve got a 4YO who is intensely curious and wants to touch a hot stove burner, and nothing you say to him will convince him it’s a bad idea, what do you do? Throw a handful of water on the burner. It’s very dramatic. Show him how it cooks meat, or melts plastic. Take his hand and bring it slowly closer and closer. It will be uncomfortably hot before it is injury level hot. Show him how to use it to cook. He probably doesn’t want to be cooked up for dinner. If he can’t follow the kitchen safety rules, he can’t be in the kitchen. > [@grude](#): > > I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about a young toddler, and I laid out the specific circumstances around using it, and I wasn’t spanking for wrongdoing. > > If my spouse was somehow mentally incapacitated(drugged or delirious) and tried to run out on a highway I’d absolutely physically restrain her until she came to her senses. Physically restraining someone is not the same as hitting them. I do think toddlers should be physically restrained (e.g. holding your hand) when walking near highways, crossing roads, in car parks and in other dangerous places. ---
**Author:** ![liontamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b487fb/32.png) [@liontamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liontamer)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/90 "2014-09-23T01:05:33Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I readily admit that screaming at a child, or belittling them, or emotionally manipulating them, is a lot more abusing than occasionally popping them one. Kids will get over an occasional smack, as long as the parents are otherwise loving. > > Still, if I gave my wife an occasional smack–hard enough to sting but not hard enough to leave a bruise–she could get over that as well. But why should she have to? > > I also wouldn’t scream at my wife, or shame her, or emotionally manipulate her, which in my mind would be worse than smacking her occasionally. I really hope she learned how to be an adult before you had to scorn her into it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/91 "2014-09-23T02:38:41Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > We’re talking about pre-verbal children? Seriously? You’re going to smack a toddler? > > I remember when my children were pre-verbal. I don’t recall an epidemic of stove-touching, street crossing, dog-poking, knife-juggling, or poison-chugging, because we kept knives and poison and wolverines out of their reach, and didn’t let them wander around the streets by themselves. You didn’t know me and my cousins. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/92 "2014-09-23T02:46:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I would also like to hear the answer to this question from people who are pro-spanking. Hell I’ll bite, I’m not pro spanking though however I do think in limited situations it is the only option. I wouldn’t spank my wife because she knows better than to do risky potentially fatal things, there would be no point in spanking her because it isn’t needed. I don’t spank for disagreement or disobedience. But after days of talking, instructing, cajoling, etc and I wake up and go pee and my wife is in the kitchen making coffee and I come back to the bedroom to find my two year old has ignored everything and leap up and moved a dresser, piece of plywood, removed bungee cords and opened a bay window and is leaning out of it trying to grab a tree branch with a 40 foot drop. Yea that is spanking time. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/93 "2014-09-23T03:03:24Z")
What kills me is that so many people who say “Long-term emotional damage from being hit with a belt/switch/wooden spoon/other? Balderdash!” are the same ones who say “My child will be instantly and permanently damaged if they see a tasteful nude, or listen to certain kinds of music, or encounter a same-sex couple! Stop this corruption!” ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/94 "2014-09-23T03:18:06Z")
This whole thread reminds me of the western horse trainer Dave Jones, who told an anecdote in one of his books about how hard it was to get his young cowboys to stop hitting and spurring the colts to make them do what they wanted, instead of developing a relationship based on trust. There was only only horse they wouldn’t do that to, this old horse who, if you hit him or spurred him, would whip his neck around and bite the shit out of your leg. For some reason the cowboys never mistreated this particular horse. I have heard innumerable stories to the effect of, my old man stopped hitting me the day I realized I could hit back. I guess that has nothing to do with hitting a toddler, does it. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/95 "2014-09-23T03:21:39Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Hell I’ll bite, I’m not pro spanking though however I do think in limited situations it is the only option. > > I wouldn’t spank my wife because she knows better than to do risky potentially fatal things, there would be no point in spanking her because it isn’t needed. I don’t spank for disagreement or disobedience. Soul of graciousness, you are. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/96 "2014-09-23T03:30:12Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Soul of graciousness, you are. I think the point is that I wouldn’t have married someone who as an adult is so non-functional they try to touch moving cars in the street, so it is a nonsensical question. I have very limited situations where I use spanking on my child, and they simply don’t apply to a spouse so the comparison is non-existant. I don’t hit my wife for “disobeying me” and I wouldn’t hit my child either. However a toddler is not yet functional enough to know the consequences of such behavior. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/97 "2014-09-23T03:33:13Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > What kills me is that so many people who say “Long-term emotional damage from being hit with a belt/switch/wooden spoon/other? Balderdash!” are the same ones who say “My child will be instantly and permanently damaged if they see a tasteful nude, or listen to certain kinds of music, or encounter a same-sex couple! Stop this corruption!” I don’t think any of that is true, I don’t care if my son sees nude people or hears curse words of sees a same sex couple. I wouldn’t let him see violent or extreme porn, just because I don’t want him to think that is human sexuality in its normal state, but all the rest doesn’t bother me. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/98 "2014-09-23T05:32:57Z")
Fear works. Hitting your kid is just giving him something to be afraid of. So he learns not to repeat that behavior because he’s afraid that you will hurt him. Even if you do it in such a way that it doesn’t **actually** hurt, the threat is that it **will**. All this bulltish about ‘learning discipline’ is just that - it’s bullying. Does the kid also learn discipline from the school thug who punches him? Sure, he learns the discipline to give that kid his lunch money every day. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/99 "2014-09-23T06:23:13Z")
**grude** , if I’d meant any specific person in this thread, I would have used their name. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693/100 "2014-09-23T06:36:44Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > **grude** , if I’d meant any specific person in this thread, I would have used their name. I didn’t think you meant me in particular, I was just offering a counter example to your statement that is all. And before someone asks if I let my four year old watch non-violent or non-extreme porn, of course not. I was just saying that would be the only concern I’d have if he were accidentally exposed to some or nudity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-how-the-times-are-changing-corporal-punishment/698693.md?page=6)