# Oh, just go to hell now, Mr. Creationist Biology teacher. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762 "2008-01-31T20:15:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/21 "2008-01-31T21:15:17Z")
You need to talk to the head of the Bio Dept and ask if it’s considered OK to teach creationism in their intro Bio classes. If it is, you’re at the wrong college. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/22 "2008-01-31T21:15:43Z")
[QUOTE=fatgail] Wait. WAIT… **WAIT**. Before we go any further, I’m going to have to ask who’s name is **RHIANNON DREAMSNAKE**. Is that YOU or the Professor? Respect hangs in the balance. [/QUOTE] Oh, dear. It’s me, from a magickal name taken about 10 years ago. Rhiannon is the name of a Welsh Goddess I work with and Dreamsnake came from a dream I had when I was a baby pagan - a snake hatched out of a chunk of amber in a dream. Later I found out it was also the name of a book about a healer, so I kept it. I’m neopagan. I’m sorry. But SEE: I’m RELIGIOUS! I believe in a Creator, and yet I ALSO believe in evolution! I’m not a godless heathen trying to destroy God and America! I just don’t see what it has to do with biology class. 😃 Thanks for the “it’s” catch, y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/23 "2008-01-31T21:15:58Z")
The way you described your teacher, I seriously had a moment where I thought, ‘‘Waittaminute. **WhyNot** ’s in 7th grade?’’ The basics about _microscope_? What the fuckkity fuck indeed. This is the most simultaneously hilarious and pit-worthy thing I have seen in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![fatgail](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fatgail/32/7285_2.png) [@fatgail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatgail)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/24 "2008-01-31T21:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Oh, dear. It’s me, from a magickal name taken about 10 years ago. Rhiannon is the name of a Welsh Goddess I work with and Dreamsnake came from a dream I had when I was a baby pagan - a snake hatched out of a chunk of amber in a dream. Later I found out it was also the name of a book about a healer, so I kept it. I’m neopagan. I’m sorry. [/QUOTE] 😃 Being a hip, modern youth of today, I thought perhaps you were the new hip hop sensation who brought us such hits as Umbrella (ella ella) and Shut Up and Drive. ---
**Author:** ![BlueKangaroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@BlueKangaroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueKangaroo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/25 "2008-01-31T21:23:47Z")
Trust me, **olivesmarch4th** , even in college we need to teach the basics of microscopes. Repeatedly. Even after we taught it to them in the last class… Anyway, **WhyNot** , you’re well aware of my opinion on this. But if you really do want to keep your head down until the end of the semester, you need to cut the snark out all together. It’s certainly fine (even desirable, perhaps) to explain why this doesn’t make sense as an ecosystem, and the elements of an ecosystem that do exist, but snark will not fly. I think you probably realize this, but if he’s hellbent enough on his beliefs to teach them _as science in a biology class_, he won’t take kindly to any amount of shit on his teaching. At least, that’s what I suspect. The offer of help is still open, including for this “assignment”. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/26 "2008-01-31T21:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=BlueKangaroo] Trust me, **olivesmarch4th** , even in college we need to teach the basics of microscopes. Repeatedly. Even after we taught it to them in the last class… [/QUOTE] I took it to mean he didn’t say “basics about microscopy”. Sounds like a caveamn- “basics about microscope, ugh.” 'Cause I just spent three labs on microscopes, so you’re right- we do keep teaching it! ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/27 "2008-01-31T21:29:55Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’m not a godless heathen trying to destroy God and America! Ah, but to him, you are. To someone like that, anyone who does not believe in his exact brand of christianity, probably conservative southern baptist or something like that, is a godless heathen trying to destroy America. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/28 "2008-01-31T21:31:20Z")
[QUOTE=wolf in second hand clothing] Wrong! What are these “carnivores” and “omnivores” that you speak of? There was no death in the Garden of Eden, everything ate apples and grapes. [/QUOTE] Tell the apples and grapes there was no death. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/29 "2008-01-31T21:40:47Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Tell the apples and grapes there was no death. [/QUOTE] Apples and grapes do not breathe, hence god never breathed the “breath of life” into them, hence they are not alive. Sheesh. Who was your biology teacher? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/30 "2008-01-31T21:44:31Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] Apples and grapes do not breathe, hence god never breathed the “breath of life” into them, hence they are not alive. Sheesh. Who was your biology teacher? 😉 [/QUOTE] Do ents breathe? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/31 "2008-01-31T21:47:06Z")
[QUOTE=IvoryTowerDenizen] Do ents breathe? [/QUOTE] No! Therefore they are not alive. Therefore, Tom Bombadil _really was_ the first creature on Middle Earth! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/32 "2008-01-31T21:47:16Z")
That pic reminds me of the Onion’s list of most self-important prog-rock album covers that I was laughing at last night. I’d be sorely tempted to raise my hand in class and ask if it’s a certainty that the two human figures are mature adults… because it’s offensive to be presented with child- or ephebophile- porn as part of an assignment. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/33 "2008-01-31T21:53:41Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Tell the apples and grapes there was no death. [/QUOTE] Eating an apple doesn’t kill the apple tree. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/34 "2008-01-31T21:56:49Z")
This might be worth pursuing: investigating to confirm whether this nutjob really has the academic bona fides he claims. It can be a bitch to get a tenured professor disciplined, let alone fired, but it would be a lot easier to get a faker dismissed if he doesn’t have the Ph.D. he claims to have… Oh, and that pic sure sports a nice lawn, at least in the back. Is that Kentucky Bluegrass? Just wondering. Looks like somebody’s been keeping up with the fertilizing, watering, and mowing. Although that section in the foreground looks like it hasn’t been receiving the same care… or even seeded with the same type of grass. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/35 "2008-01-31T21:56:55Z")
[QUOTE=BlueKangaroo] Anyway, **WhyNot** , you’re well aware of my opinion on this. But if you really do want to keep your head down until the end of the semester, you need to cut the snark out all together. It’s certainly fine (even desirable, perhaps) to explain why this doesn’t make sense as an ecosystem, and the elements of an ecosystem that do exist, but snark will not fly. I think you probably realize this, but if he’s hellbent enough on his beliefs to teach them _as science in a biology class_, he won’t take kindly to any amount of shit on his teaching. At least, that’s what I suspect. The offer of help is still open, including for this “assignment”. [/QUOTE] _sigh_ You’re right, of course. You’re no fun at’all but you’re right. > [@](#): > > While this painting is [del]entirely laughable[/del] not a scientifically accurate ecosystem [del]for it’s biological and natural inaccuracies[/del], as a cartoon we can see the components of an ecosystem on display. A natural water source with clouds in the sky indicate a water cycle, wherein water evaporates from the river, losing many contaminates to the distillation process, gathers in cloud formations and then condenses to fall again as clean water. This water dissolves minerals and brings nutrients to the cells of the plants and animals we can see, including grasses, trees, and vines [del](let us attempt to overlook the fact that ripe apples, grapes and roses are incompatible in nature due to their different growth seasons.)[/del] Herbivores such as horses and deer and some insects feed on the plants and small omnivores [del]such as the…I’m not sure what they’re supposed to be - really big shrews? Really small capybaras?..[/del] such as those in the foreground feed on the plant matter and one another. Larger omnivores like the humans and carnivores like the lions feed on these herbivores and small omnivores, and the omnivores also feed directly on some of the plants. When these omnivores and carnivores die, their bodies feed both scavengers and, when decomposed, feed the plants and trees. > > My thoughts are that while this is a pretty picture of a religious myth, it is, in fact, a terrible illustration of a working ecosystem. There are far too many creatures in a small area for the resources to be stable, there are animals standing in proximity that do not share habitats in nature, predator and prey behaving in completely unnatural manners, and plants at stages of development that are never contemporaries in nature. Better? Do I really have to get rid of the last paragraph? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/36 "2008-01-31T21:58:51Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] That’s a [great auk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Auk), I think, which provides another nice opportunity for a non-Creationist spin on things. [/QUOTE] I don’t see what’s so great about him. Pretty good Auk. Maybe. But Great? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/37 "2008-01-31T22:01:09Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Do I really have to get rid of the last paragraph? [/QUOTE] Please don’t. You used “proximity” without using “close.” (Sniff.) That’s beautiful, man. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/38 "2008-01-31T22:20:19Z")
“plants at stages of development that are never contemporaries in nature.” I think you could easily have ripe grapes, apples and roses blooming at the same time these days, thanks to modern breeding. You could cheerfully point out that while the painting is inaccurate for Biblical days, we have in recent times made its horticultural depictions a reality thanks to humans supplanting creation with genetically superior plants. I’m sure that will go over well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/39 "2008-01-31T22:26:58Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] It’s at the [Victoria and Albert Museum:](http://images.vam.ac.uk/indexplus/result.html?_IXFIRST_=1&_IXSS_=_IXFIRST_%3d1%26_IXINITSR_%3dy%26%2524%253dIXID%3d%26_IXACTION_%3dquery%26%2524%253dIXOBJECT%3d%26_IXMAXHITS_%3d15%26%252asform%3dvanda%26%2524%253dIXNAME%3d%26_IXSESSION_%3dufL4coTc5fv%26%2524%253dIXPLACE%3d%26_IXadv_%3d0%26search%3dsearch%26%2524%253dIXMATERIAL%3d%26%2524%253ds%3dbrueghel%26%2524%253dop%3dAND%26_IXFPFX_%3dtemplates%252ft%26%2524%253dsi%3dtext%26%2524%253dIXFROM%3d%26%2524%253dIXTO%3d&_IXACTION_=query&_IXMAXHITS_=1&_IXSR_=r8Dgx8JnyYn&_IXSPFX_=templates%2ft&_IXFPFX_=templates%2ft) [/QUOTE] Thanks. I thought it looked like a classical painting, and you saved me a lot of investigative work. **WhyNot** : You might also add that this picture demonstrates that people in the 16th and 17th centuries didn’t understand ecosystems, and it is good that we have a better understanding today of what feasible systems are. And I agree that you should get yourself to the head of the department. I believe you said that this guy was an instructor, not a professor, and thus has no tenure. You will be doing your school a great service by getting his butt kicked out of it. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/40 "2008-01-31T22:27:10Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] “plants at stages of development that are never contemporaries in nature.” I think you could easily have ripe grapes, apples and roses blooming at the same time these days, thanks to modern breeding. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure that’s true, though, even with modern techniques. Don’t apples need cold enough conditions to mature such that roses will drop their petals? Roses stop blooming 'round here by July or \*maybe \*mid-August, and apples don’t start ripening 'till September or so, even if we’re dealing with modern hybrids. Honestly, I know nothin’ bout grape cultivation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762.md?page=3)