# Oh, just go to hell now, Mr. Creationist Biology teacher. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762 "2008-01-31T20:15:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/121 "2008-02-03T01:46:34Z")
> [@](#): > > In the movie in my mind, you’re the little pipsqueak sidekick running out to kick a goon while he’s down. I’m the little nerd who “accidentally” sticks her foot a little too far into the aisle at the critical moment, tripping the instructor while appearing to be deeply and earnestly absorbed in his teachings on jesus horses. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/122 "2008-02-03T01:59:53Z")
Ok, some ground rules! _Very_ important in this discussion of the biological and ecological sciences. . . Absolutely no hatin’ on Jan Breughel! Thank you, Dr Capybara, art historian ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/123 "2008-02-03T02:03:19Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] I didn’t get any. ☹ [/QUOTE] Well, you couldn’t even catch a roadrunner, and i have never heard them described as great. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/124 "2008-02-03T02:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=brownie55] Well, you couldn’t even catch a roadrunner, and i have never heard them described as great. [/QUOTE] You’ve never seen the cartoon where he breaks down exactly why he wants to catch the roadrunner and what the various parts taste like? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/125 "2008-02-03T18:20:12Z")
I’ve had eccentric, egomaniacal professors in my time, but this… I am speechless. Take this shit to the Dean and be done. I wouldn’t dial down one iota of that “snark”–it will serve as a blessed reality check to Professor Eden McNutty. That said, I like Brueghel’s works… [Breugel the Elder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pieter_Bruegel_the_Elder) The Bruegels are an interesting bunch: most were painters of various skill, and they all called themselves either The Younger or The Older–check out the Wikipedia links. (oh, ok-there were only 4 that did the younger/elder thingy. Still, makes a good story). As a bio class, this might instruct you well on art history. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/126 "2008-02-03T18:40:25Z")
Any update from yesterday’s class? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/127 "2008-02-03T19:00:51Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] There’s no bush at all. [/QUOTE] Well, in less than a year… ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/128 "2008-02-04T04:07:57Z")
[QUOTE=LilyoftheValley] Any update from yesterday’s class? [/QUOTE] Eh…it wasn’t as bad, but it wasn’t good. The highlights: We got a syllabus! Or rather, we got a packet (3 sheets) of paper with the words “Class Syllabus” on them. Also on them were a copy of the course description from the catalog and the Laboratory Safety Rules. What were noticeably NOT on them were any dates of quizzes or tests, information about grading (other than the grading scale - nothing about how many points each quiz or test was to be, nor how many of them) and no information about what topics are to be covered what days. Oh, also no name of instructor or contact information. At least it gave us a few laughs at the Dopefest. The lowlights: he’s constitutionally incapable of admitting when he makes a mistake, and he makes lots of them. The most egregious was probably when he said that one of the peculiar characteristics of water was its high specific heat, and that having a high specific heat means it has a high boiling point. 😕 I said I didn’t think that was quite right, and that while water might have both a high specific heat and a relatively high boiling point, the two didn’t mean the same thing - specific heat refers to how much energy it takes to change the temperature from any degree to one additional degree, and boiling point is the point at which, y’know, it boils and changes state. So he tells me I’m wrong, and then “re-explains” his point, but alters it so that in the end he’s saying what I just said, and then asks me if I understand it now. Um, yeah, I understand it just fine. I understood it when _I_ explained it to _you_, dumbass! So frustrating. But the Creationism stuff was fairly quiet, probably because we were mostly covering chemistry today. There were a couple of “designed” comments, and I jotted them down in my log just to be a bitch, but honestly they were back in the realm of possibly being metaphors. I’m going to be out of class next week, so I won’t find out what he thought of my “essay” until the 16th. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/129 "2008-02-04T06:16:45Z")
Any way to tape him, and keep the tapes to be able to back you up should you need them? (Plus they’d give all your science loving friends laughing fits mixed in with shudders of horror.) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/130 "2008-02-04T08:41:35Z")
Is there an ombudsman or similar? Seriously, what recourse do you have? I can’t think of any nursing instructor/professor who would condone or approve of such teachings… ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/131 "2008-02-04T14:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=brownie55] Well, you couldn’t even catch a roadrunner, and i have never heard them described as great. [/QUOTE] Hey! There’s no reason for personal attacks. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/132 "2008-02-04T15:12:23Z")
Still doesn’t smell like a syllabus to me. What is the school’s policy about what’s on a syllabus? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/133 "2008-02-04T15:25:41Z")
[This](http://www.cafepress.com/buy/evolution/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_23803512/opt_/fpt_/c_666/) should help things out or maybe [this.](http://www.cafepress.com/buy/evolution/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_23803512/opt_/fpt_/c_666/) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/134 "2008-02-04T16:01:49Z")
[QUOTE=susan] Still doesn’t smell like a syllabus to me. What is the school’s policy about what’s on a syllabus? [/QUOTE] Oh, I agree, that’s not a syllabus by anyone’s reasonable definition, nor did any of the college-educated Dopers who saw it first hand, nor my husband the college instructor think it was a syllabus. I think you’re right that the lack of, now incomplete, syllabus and lack of organization are the things to bring to the attention of the department. While the Creationist stuff is great to rant about, in all honesty I have only my impressions (and the circumstantial evidence of choosing a Garden of Eden painting) to back that up. I may deal with that later, but he needs more rope to hang himself \*unambiguously \*on that nail. At the moment, I’m thinking of sending an email to the head of the biology department: > [@](#): > > Dear Dr. XXXXX > > I am writing to you because of concerns I have with my BIO121 class which meets once a week on Saturdays. I’m concerned that the instructor may not be meeting the requirements of your department or the City of Chicago Colleges. I’m bringing this matter to your attention so that you have the information you need to counsel the instructor as you see fit. > > Here are the problems we’ve had so far: > > Dr. Y is extremely disorganized. The first day of class, we were not given a syllabus; he told us he’d email one. He told us we’d need to purchase a lab book, but didn’t know which one. His lecture was extremely disjointed and confusing, he had no clear outline or plan for the day. He lectured on several Power Point presentations which had seemingly random slides - a comparison of cilia with flagellum, a model of a molecule, a breakdown of the Scientific Method, a slide showing the progression from molecule to cell to organ and so on…when one student (not me) complained that he was being confusing and she didn’t understand the direct connection between atomic structure and the scientific method, he made no attempt to clarify his intent, but instead berated her in front of the class, bringing her to tears. > > His assignments are very vague, with no articulation of requirements past a very broad topic. The first week, we were told to write “about water”. The best I was able to parse was that he wanted a few paragraphs on the importance of water in the field of biology - but he never actually said that. He also told us he’d email us a picture of “an ecosystem” and we were to write our thoughts about that. One student asked for more a more specific topic and a length requirement, and he refused to answer her. > > By Wednesday night, he still had not emailed us the picture or the syllabus. I emailed him to ask him to send it, and on Thursday the class got the email. Attached was a .pdf file of Brueghel’s painting, “The Garden of Eden; in the background The Temptation”. There was no syllabus. I completed the assignments to the best of my ability and turned them in on Saturday. > > On Saturday he handed out a “syllabus” which consists of the course description as printed in the catalog and the rules for safe laboratory use. There is no mention of dates, topics, quizzes, tests, homework assignments or the instructor’s contact information. > > During the lecture, he made numerous factual errors, including conflating specific heat and boiling point. Students were very confused on many issues. > > After the class, I went to him privately to notify him that I will be unable to attend next week’s class. I told him I’d email him my homework and asked him what chapters or topics he planned on covering next week so I could read out of the book and make sure I kept up, and he told me he didn’t know what he’d be covering the following week. He told me he was building up from atoms to molecules to cells, then to tissues, organs, organisms, etc. I asked if I should cover cellular anatomy and the function of organelles, and he said he supposed so. He also said that he was “struggling” because he’s never taught this course before. > > I’m leery of coming off as a whiner here. I want to be clear that I actually LIKE Dr. Y quite a bit. He’s a very personable gentleman. I’m a good student, and I have a fairly good layperson’s understanding of biology, so I don’t feel like I’m struggling in terms of the information at this early point. But I’m concerned that he may not be meeting the standards of your college, and he’s not providing the level of education that our class - mostly students hoping to move into various nursing programs - need in such a foundational subject. My hope is that you can communicate with him students’ concerns about the level of disorganization in his classroom and help him to develop a coherent teaching strategy and complete syllabus. > > Email is my preferred form of communication, but if you feel a phone call or office visit is required, I’m happy to speak with you about this issue. If you need no more from me, that’s fine too. Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. > > Regards, > WhyNot What do you think? Too long, didn’t read, right? _sigh_ I \*really \*want to do this by email - personal and phone meetings give me the willies. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/135 "2008-02-04T16:08:13Z")
I dunno. I thought it was a good letter, but I don’t have much experience with this sort of thing. Out of curiousity, have you checked to see what sort of rating he has on [Ratemyprofessors](http://ratemyprofessors.com/index.jsp)? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/136 "2008-02-04T16:12:50Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] I dunno. I thought it was a good letter, but I don’t have much experience with this sort of thing. Out of curiousity, have you checked to see what sort of rating he has on [Ratemyprofessors](http://ratemyprofessors.com/index.jsp)? [/QUOTE] I have, and he’s not there. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/137 "2008-02-04T16:19:23Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Oh, I agree, that’s not a syllabus by anyone’s reasonable definition, nor did any of the college-educated Dopers who saw it first hand, nor my husband the college instructor think it was a syllabus. I think you’re right that the lack of, now incomplete, syllabus and lack of organization are the things to bring to the attention of the department. While the Creationist stuff is great to rant about, in all honesty I have only my impressions (and the circumstantial evidence of choosing a Garden of Eden painting) to back that up. I may deal with that later, but he needs more rope to hang himself \*unambiguously \*on that nail. At the moment, I’m thinking of sending an email to the head of the biology department: What do you think? Too long, didn’t read, right? _sigh_ I \*really \*want to do this by email - personal and phone meetings give me the willies. [/QUOTE] Speaking as a college professor and former department chair, I think this letter strikes the appropriate tone. It is informative without being overly accusatory or complaining; it is not hostile, and seeks an improvement of the current situation rather than some punitive action against the professor. Other profs. might chime in, but I think it is a very good letter, and I would send it. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/138 "2008-02-04T16:34:14Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Speaking as a college professor and former department chair, I think this letter strikes the appropriate tone. It is informative without being overly accusatory or complaining; it is not hostile, and seeks an improvement of the current situation rather than some punitive action against the professor. Other profs. might chime in, but I think it is a very good letter, and I would send it. [/QUOTE] Thank you very much for your input. I’ll hang on for a little bit to see if anyone else has 2 cents to donate, but your post makes me feel like I’m not being entirely unreasonable. (It’s very odd posting to this thread and the “whiny college students” thread more or less simultaneously. I so do NOT want to be one of those whiners, but I don’t want to be a total doormat, either! Sometimes “whining” is, in fact, appropriate. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/139 "2008-02-04T16:43:09Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Thank you very much for your input. I’ll hang on for a little bit to see if anyone else has 2 cents to donate, but your post makes me feel like I’m not being entirely unreasonable. (It’s very odd posting to this thread and the “whiny college students” thread more or less simultaneously. I so do NOT want to be one of those whiners, but I don’t want to be a total doormat, either! Sometimes “whining” is, in fact, appropriate. 😃 ) [/QUOTE] Bio prof here- and I supervise adjunct lecturers, so I get letters of concern on occasion. I thought your email was very respectful and raised reasonable concerns. The only part I felt was a little superfluous was the section on the disorganized lecture slides, if only because sometimes profs may be going in a direction the student may not yet clearly understand. (Not that I think that is what’s going on here, mind you!). However, if you wanted to leave that section in, it would be fine as well. You have enough with the delayed syllabus, inappropriate content of the syllabus, slef admission of disorganization and poorly designed assignments. The chair should be able to read through the lines with the “Garden of Eden” assignment! Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762/140 "2008-02-04T16:48:24Z")
If I were writing your letter, I’d throw in an extra paragraph about how the 6 hour class meeting once a week makes each individual class period that much more important. Although the Creationist stuff may drive you buggy, and from your description doesn’t sound all that professional, I really don’t think that one should have to believe in Evolution to be an effective teacher of Evolution. Also, I have major issues with the idea that Evolution is somehow the Cornerstone of Modern Biology. (OK, as summed up by me, this may resemble a strawman. So be it.) But while I sympathize with the first time teaching this course complaint, and recognize that syllabuses often change during the semster, I do think that your concern about enough material being covered, approximate test dates and his techniques for interacting with students in the classroom, are issues which should be addressed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-just-go-to-hell-now-mr-creationist-biology-teacher/435762.md?page=8)