# "Oh, Mary! Know Any Early Gay Novels?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026 "2003-12-31T22:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/21 "2004-01-01T15:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The same show rebroadcast a June 19th, 2003 interview with Marijane Meaker. “Her new book is about her two-year affair with writer Patricia Highsmith. The two met in the 1950s at a Greenwich Village lesbian bar. Both were writing lesbian pulp fiction novels under pseudonyms.” Patricia Highsmith wrote a pulp lesbian novel, _The Price of Salt_, in 1953 under the pseudonym Claire Morgan. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/22 "2004-01-01T17:22:30Z")
Jesus, you read the _Times_ early. You must have seen that Feminist Press has also released Valerie Taylor’s 1959 lesbian romance _The Girls in 3-B_? ---
**Author:** ![merrily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@merrily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrily)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/23 "2004-01-01T17:34:51Z")
Not fiction–even better. Read about Vita Sackville-West’s scandalous affair with Violet Trefusis. They even ran away to Paris together for a while in 1920. Violet was the model for the Russian fox-woman in Orlando–she sounds very self-centered, makes for good reading. There are several biographies of Vita that tell about it. Vita was also in love with Virginia Woolf, although whether it was truly physical is past knowing. Vita and Violet makes a much better story. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/24 "2004-01-01T17:49:22Z")
Eve, go out and pick up the current edition of Utne Reader, there’s a fairly lengthy article (reprinted from Z Magazine’s June 2003 issue) about postwar gay fiction. Or I suppose you could probably find it online. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/25 "2004-01-01T19:45:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Gay Boys in Bondage by William Shakespeare goddang it, there’s Diet Coke all over my screen now… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tasha\_Yar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f14d63/32.png) [@Tasha\_Yar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tasha_Yar)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/26 "2004-01-01T20:48:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMark \* > \*\* > > Sorry, but I cannot remember the name of the book anymore. I believe it was a scholarly, non-fiction book by some professor at a University, but that is not a lot to go on. If you should, by some miracle, find the review or the book, let me know! \*\* This site [http://www.piratesinfo.com](http://www.piratesinfo.com) has a message board with a forum for the scholarly discussion of pirates. Perhaps it may be of some use to you. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/27 "2004-01-01T22:08:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*Gay Boys in Bondage by William Shakespeare \*\* Facetious as this remark is 😉 – it’s not a novel, but Marlowe’s _Edward II_ (c. 1590) has been called the oldest English drama with a gay protagonist…which is probably true, as I can’t think of an earlier one… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/28 "2004-01-01T22:26:15Z")
Believe it or not, the mediaeval Catalan epic _Tirant lo blanc_ includes some (fairly obvious) lesbian episodes between its two main female characters … ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/29 "2004-01-02T02:49:37Z")
tremorviolet- I SHOOT, I SCORE! _G_ Katisha- you are aware of the Monty Python reference, I hope wasn’t Edward II recently filmed or serve as the basis for a film? (not MY OWN PRIVATE IDAHO) ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/30 "2004-01-02T11:31:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*wasn’t Edward II recently filmed or serve as the basis for a film? > (not MY OWN PRIVATE IDAHO) \*\* There was a film version by Derek Jarmam made in 1991: [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101798/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101798/) ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/31 "2004-01-02T13:55:00Z")
“The Swimming Pool Library” is set in 1980s London, but one of the characters is an elderly gay man who, through his journal, writes about the 20s and 30s gay world. You just get a few glimpses, but the rest of the story is good as well. You may want to search the archives for the radio show “Fresh Air with Terry Gross.” Several months ago she interviewed a woman who wrote pulp novels in the 50s that all had plot lines involving lesbian relationships. I’ve completely forgotten her name. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/32 "2004-01-02T14:36:13Z")
Also, while not a novel, “The Naked Civil Servant,” by Quentin Crisp, should give you a good read on 1920s and 1930s gay London. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/33 "2004-01-02T14:50:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\*Also, while not a novel, “The Naked Civil Servant,” by Quentin Crisp, should give you a good read on 1920s and 1930s gay London. \*\* —I knew Quentin; I’m mentioned in one of his books. We used to have lunch or dinner every so often. Closest I’ll ever get to meeting Oscar Wilde! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/34 "2004-01-02T15:24:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I knew Quentin; I’m mentioned in one of his books. Which one? Re reprints of classic gay lit, the Quality Paperback Book Club used to have an imprint called IIRC “Triangle Classics.” I think QPBC has spun off the gay segment of its club into [Insight Out Books](http://www.insightoutbooks.com/doc/club_url/club_url.jhtml;jsessionid=ZTQMHSKAUOKDOCWKAQPCFEY?_requestid=20845) which may or may not continue the imprint (it’s been a while since I opened any of ISO’s mailings). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/35 "2004-01-02T15:31:29Z")
Hmm. [Insight Out Books](http://www.insightoutbooks.com/doc/club_url/club_url.jhtml;jsessionid=ZTQMHSKAUOKDOCWKAQPCFEY?_requestid=20845) Damn smileys. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/36 "2004-01-02T15:34:03Z")
Ooooh, it’s a book club. I am still dodging the Longines Symphonette Society . . . I don’t remember which of Quentin’s books I’m in, but it’s reprints of his columns from that weekly he used to write for. ---
**Author:** ![kka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/37 "2004-01-02T19:10:26Z")
You may want to check out [this](http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archive/1in10/99/06/100_years.html) list of the 100 best gay and lesbian books of the century. Billy Budd was 13, I expected it to be a bit higheron the list. ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/38 "2004-01-02T21:15:30Z")
Also, somebody has written a book called “The Girls: Sappho Goes To Hollywood” that traces a crazy chain o’ lesbian love from Marlene Dietrich to Greta Garbo. Can’t remember the author right now, or how reliable she is. ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/39 "2004-01-02T21:16:54Z")
Aaaand that’s not at all what you were asking for, as it’s relatively recent. Never mind, never mind… No gay love for me today. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026/40 "2004-01-02T21:26:11Z")
Truman Capote’s OTHER VOICES, OTHER ROOMS (1948) is a young gay man’s coming of age novel. Capote committed the mortal sin of eclipsing Vidal’s CITY AND THE PILLAR (and, imho, of being a much better writer of fiction [though Vidal’s non fiction is fantastic]) and began the Battle of the Bitches that lasted until his death. (Actually Vidal still takes pot shots at Capote though few listen anymore; he looks terrible since his partner Howard died, incidentally.) If you want to go really far back, the love letters of Michelangelo (his family changed the gender of the object) are wonderful gay romantic erotica. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-mary-know-any-early-gay-novels/222026.md?page=1)