# oh, my foul language is so awful, but dying brown people are just fine & dandy! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589 "2005-07-08T14:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/61 "2005-07-08T21:04:18Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Again in general, talk radio allows the lowest common denominators of American society a place to preen and display themselves. While the SDMB allows the **highest** common denominators of **world** society a place to preen and display themselves. Whare’s the preening smilie? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/62 "2005-07-08T21:13:51Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Whare’s the preening smilie? Is this it? :wally Count me as another vote for the Pittee’s point being worthy of discussion, but his presentation (place and form) sucking dingo turd. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/63 "2005-07-08T21:20:59Z")
**TWO:** _Talk radio, whether liberal or conservative, is mindless and devoted to the spreading of ignorance and animosity._ **Jack,** acting ignorant and animositous: \*What the **hell** you talkin’ about, dickweed??? :dubious: \* **TYM:** \*In general, that’s a fairly accurate statement. \* whooshy whoosh? 😉 **c e:** _It makes me sick to see Americans mourning the London bombings when at least forty Iraqis die every week from our own actions._ Well, sympathy, like charity, begins at home, and it takes a while to grow it to a size that encompasses the whole world. As I said in **jrfranchi** ’s GD thread that I linked to above, it’s a natural reaction to care more about your “own tribe”, but it’s a natural reaction that we have to evolve beyond if we’re going to lay any claim to being any kind of moral arbiter for the whole world. We’re supposed to be supporting **universal** principles of freedom, justice, and equality here. (And while I agree that we often fall short of living up to those principles, and particularly that our leaders have done a lot of stupid and immoral things in Iraq, I can’t agree that forty-odd Iraqis are dying every week from “our own actions” pure and simple. Yes, we should mourn the murdered Iraqis just as much as we mourn the murdered Britons, but the direct responsibility for the deaths of the former lies with the terrorists and insurgents who shot and car-bombed them. Even though our actions as a nation did a lot to help cause this horrible situation, the people who actually commit deliberate murder of innocent civilians are the ones who bear the ultimate responsibility. Btw, that’s just as true on the (hopefully rare) occasions when the people deliberately murdering innocent civilians are our own soldiers.) ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/64 "2005-07-08T21:31:39Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > And if you have more “grief” over a random white and/or Western person dying than you do over the death of a non-white/non-Western person, then you are a racist. “Similar cultures” my ass, why don’t you say what you really think? Non-Westerners just don’t count as much as us. It’s not that they’re less human, you’d say, just that we’re more so. I disagree. The difference in reactions isn’t because of race, it’s because of ideas of where violence is appropriate. If this had happened in Belfast or Bilbao, people would be upset, but not to this degree, because violence is _expected_ in those places. After a couple years of war in Iraq, we’ve become accustomed to hearing the daily death toll in Baghdad. It’s no longer shocking. But London is generally thought of as a safe place, so when terrorists attack there, it reminds us that it can happen anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![boret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@boret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boret)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/65 "2005-07-08T21:35:11Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > …It makes me sick to see Americans mourning the London bombings when at least forty Iraqis die every week from our own actions. And if you have more “grief” over a random white and/or Western person dying than you do over the death of a non-white/non-Western person, then you are a racist. “Similar cultures” my ass, why don’t you say what you really think? Non-Westerners just don’t count as much as us. It’s not that they’re less human, you’d say, just that we’re more so. > > Not that this is intended in any way to cut down the London bombings. Yeah, they were sad, they were tragic, and all of that. But excuse me if I notice a little hypocrisy in hawks (including the ones on this very board) mourning the deaths of Westerners while simultaneously supporting the slaughter (or ignoring the suffering) of everyone else. Thank you sir (or madam). But here’s the problem: How do you propose to have this discussion with people without making them defensive and/or hostile (hostile due to their defensiveness)??? I’m still waiting for someone to argue there _isn’t_ a double standard on the reporting and mourning of tragic deaths in the (western) media, so I’ll assume it’s a fait accompli here. Last call, guys… I wish we could move on from that denial/non-denial to the debate about how we find the empathy and the impetus to end needless death of _all_ peoples. And I mean pragmatically and rationally, without invoking jokes about singing “kumbaya” and “bleeding hearts”. That’s how we’re crippled, I think - being made to think there is no pragmatic/rational solution other than accepting ridiculous amounts of “collateral damage” (read: humans quite like us but rendered “expendable” in ridiculous numbers within the terms of political propaganda). ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/66 "2005-07-08T22:39:02Z")
> [@xbuckeye](#): > > Am I the only one finding it ironic that **bob** ’s location is listed as the centre of the universe? And yet he is a universe away from me. (hey, mine says approx. Center of the Universe… only because I live beside Fremont, which is, of course, the _established_ [Center of the Universe](http://www.fremontseattle.com/center_frameset.htm).) ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/67 "2005-07-08T22:56:02Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > if you have more “grief” over a random white and/or Western person dying than you do over the death of a non-white/non-Western person, That’s a mighty big _if_. How do you know whether I do or whether I don’t ? > [@](#): > > mourning the deaths of Westerners while simultaneously supporting the slaughter (or ignoring the suffering) of everyone else. Thank you for assuming that I support the slaughter/suffering of everone else. Really. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/68 "2005-07-08T23:15:28Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > That’s a mighty big _if_. How do you know whether I do or whether I don’t ? > Thank you for assuming that I support the slaughter/suffering of everone else. Really. :rolleyes: Jump to conclusions much? Comments not directed at you specifically, but at “everyone.” Specifically, pro-war (not saying you are, don’t know your position) people grieving over the London bombing. Shee-it, it’s getting so I have to slap two dozen disclaimers on every post I make. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/69 "2005-07-08T23:55:36Z")
Pardon me, but as the unfortunate author of the MPSIMS thread which started this whole brou-ha ha, I interpreted your "hawks (including the ones on this very board) mourning the deaths of Westerners " at me. If that’s not the case, then I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/70 "2005-07-09T02:41:22Z")
… and that’s part of what brought up all the anger at **bob** – he entered a tribute thread to do this denunciation with a (stupid? rude? inappropriate either way) phrasing. Had he stated things as level-headedly as **continuity eror** or **boret** , or taken the angry rant to the Pit, there would have been no problem. And when admonished about the right place/time/manner for these sorts of things, he got confrontational. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/71 "2005-07-09T04:22:46Z")
On an uptick, I see some seeds of good discussion in **bob** ’s postings. I’d like to see him come back and start a GD thread on the issue. I have some things which I’d like to share with him about it. I look forward to his return. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/72 "2005-07-09T14:35:23Z")
> [@bob\_loblaw](#): > > lineup to abuse me starts to your right → > > i will now take this space to voluntarilly apologize for any blanket condemnations of this board community, real or perceived, that i have made. > > i blame only myself for posting here while simultaneously listening to american talk radio. > > honestly, i think only about 1/3 of you are bigotted blowhards, at least another third are enlightened humanists; or at least share the principles thereof. the middle third – i’m worried for, you all seem like mindless followers, but what do i know… > > anyway, i think i will take a week or two away from these boards, and maybe we can go from then on. > > if you have anything else to say you’d really like me to see, remember to bump it round about the 22nd or so, cause i’ll not be checking in again until at least then. Have a nice vacation, **Dick**. That _is_ your name, right. . ._ **Dick** _? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/73 "2005-07-09T14:42:19Z")
> [@bob\_loblaw](#): > > lineup to abuse me starts to your right → I personally don’t feel like getting behind his parents and possibly several uncles. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/74 "2005-07-09T15:24:10Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Well, I think the OP is right, although his phrasing and capitalization could use some work. It makes me sick to see Americans mourning the London bombings when at least forty Iraqis die every week from our own actions. And if you have more “grief” over a random white and/or Western person dying than you do over the death of a non-white/non-Western person, then you are a racist. “Similar cultures” my ass, why don’t you say what you really think? Non-Westerners just don’t count as much as us. It’s not that they’re less human, you’d say, just that we’re more so. > > Not that this is intended in any way to cut down the London bombings. Yeah, they were sad, they were tragic, and all of that. But excuse me if I notice a little hypocrisy in hawks (including the ones on this very board) mourning the deaths of Westerners while simultaneously supporting the slaughter (or ignoring the suffering) of everyone else. Come to my church some time. When we have the Prayers of the people, we do pray for, by name, the Americans killed in Iraq; we also pray for the Iraqis whose names we do not know, and we’re fully aware that the Iraqis outnumber the Americans as a rule. One of our parishioners travelled to Sri Lanka to assist tsunami victims this winter, and we sent not only our blessings, but our money with him. His intent and ours was not to convert, but to assist. Since his father was an Anglican minister in Sri Lanka, I think we figured conversion wasn’t necessary. As for London, my uncle works in London (fortunately, he walks to work), and his lady friend works there several days a week. My cousin still owns a flat there and travels there regularly on business. Is it any wonder this hit me hard? I am incredibly frustrated by America’s failure to act given the various situations in Africa over the years, and I do consider our aid to Bosnia but not Rwanda to be wrong, if not downright hypocritical. The way this country has responded to the AIDS crisis is equally wrong, in my book. **Bob** had _no_ right to come in and accuse this board and, by inclusion, me of not caring about “brown people” when the country I was born in and a city I love had been directly attacked on a day when they should have been celebrating. The men and women going to work aren’t the ones who made the decision to go to war in Iraq or whatever specious excuse set these people off, any more than the people of the city I live in were complicit in the events that led to the events of September 11th. I am aware that by being an educated, spirited, intelligent, Christian woman, my very existence and character are anathema to some who claim to follow Islam. I won’t demean myself by changing to suit their warped values, no matter how bombs they throw at me and mine. By the way, I also find the way “brown people” was used to be a trifle condescending, although I can’t put my finger on why. What’s wrong with simply using the term “Iraqis”, “Middle Easterners” or something similar? CJ ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/75 "2005-07-09T17:38:27Z")
> [@boret](#): > > Oh no! I’m the sort of principled (read:neurotic) cheapskate who feels the psychological need to “earn” whatever I get. I doubt the right circumstances for that will occur here within the proscibed time for guest status. I will either pay or fade away. > > I only hope that no one regrets my decision, either way. Oh, go and find the ATMB thread on member sponsorship, already. 😉 Hoi, **Siege** , can I come to your church? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/76 "2005-07-09T18:21:44Z")
> [@bob\_loblaw](#): > > . . . happy fucking white people appreciation day to you all . . . Thank you, and happy who’s-guarding-the-gate-of-the-mental-institution day to you. ---
**Author:** ![boret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@boret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boret)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/77 "2005-07-09T18:43:21Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Oh, go and find the ATMB thread on member sponsorship, already. 😉 But I can afford the membership fee, so how would I live with myself if I did that? I’m guessing you’re not a real cheapskate (we’re sooo misunderstood 🙂 ). In my sick mind, I’ve got one month to justify the _value_ of this place (to myself). Wish me luck (or not, should I turn out to be a “lulu” in your estimation). ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/78 "2005-07-09T20:00:18Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **Bob** had _no_ right to come in and accuse this board and, by inclusion, me of not caring about “brown people” when the country I was born in and a city I love had been directly attacked on a day when they should have been celebrating. The men and women going to work aren’t the ones who made the decision to go to war in Iraq or whatever specious excuse set these people off, any more than the people of the city I live in were complicit in the events that led to the events of September 11th. Can’t speak for Bob, but I was not referring to anyone who has a connection with London by my comment. What I am referring to is this: I know people who have never been to New York (not to mention London), have no connection with anyone from there, in fact think of all cityfolk and Europeans as a bunch of fags, but were totally upset when 9/11 or the London bombing happened. They acted as if they had been personally insulted/attacked, when in fact there is no more of a connection between them and the average New Yorker/Londonite (something obviously not true in your case), and them and the average Iraqi. By contrast, some of them cheer when Iraqis are killed, including those people just unlucky enough to be going to work when they’re bombed, like the unlucky Londoners. Is it really so off-base to suggest that the average insular country-boy’s despondence (or more accurately, rage) over 9/11 and/or London has something to do with petty things like racial and language similarities? What do you mean by “should have been celebrating”? Was the day of the attack a British holiday? I have usually heard “brown people” used in a mocking tone, as if to say “this is the word Mr. White Western Moneybags would use if he wasn’t too chicken.” ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/79 "2005-07-09T21:10:41Z")
London was granted the 2012 Summer Olympics the day before. it was kind of a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589/80 "2005-07-09T21:24:04Z")
> [@Hello Again](#): > > London was granted the 2012 Summer Olympics the day before. it was kind of a big deal. And hosted a Live 8 concert a few days before. I can understand that this is a big deal. But I think we would look better if we made a big deal about similar, worse things of this nature happening in the middle-east. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-foul-language-is-so-awful-but-dying-brown-people-are-just-fine-dandy/311589.md?page=5)