# Oh. My. God. Bonehead parents taking their kids to 'Chicken Pox Parties' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712 "2005-03-09T20:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/121 "2005-03-11T02:49:20Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Is there any point to a non-immunocompromised adult getting the CP vaccine? The CDC and professional groups including the American Academy of Family Physicians recommend two doses of the chickenpox vaccine 4-8 weeks apart for anyone over 13 who hasn’t had chickenpox. > [@](#): > > On the bright side, I discovered that I once had a pediatric dermatologist named Dr. Spot. Which made him a good match for my pediatrician, Dr. Gerber. I had a dentist named Dr. Ivory. And in places I’ve lived, there were psychiatrists named Dr. Head and Dr. Bhatti. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/122 "2005-03-11T02:54:40Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And in places I’ve lived, there were psychiatrists named Dr. Head and Dr. Bhatti. I once knew a urologist named Dr. Urin. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/123 "2005-03-11T03:10:30Z")
I had a dentist named Dr. Miracle. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/124 "2005-03-11T03:11:30Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > I had a dentist named Dr. Miracle. I had a math teacher names Sue Lucheon. (Seriously.) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/125 "2005-03-11T03:19:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I had a math teacher names Sue Lucheon. (Seriously.) Our driver’s ed teacher was named Mr. Miles. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/126 "2005-03-11T03:23:57Z")
I got chicken pox when I was 19. I was sick for about a week and a half. Fortunately there was only one tiny scar – on my eyebrow. It’s nearly impossible to see. Guess I’m stronger than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/127 "2005-03-11T03:30:17Z")
I guess I’ll get the vaccine some time after I end breasfeeding and the time Mighty\_Kid goes to school. Same for measles. ---
**Author:** ![Flamsterette\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@Flamsterette\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flamsterette_X)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/128 "2005-03-11T04:13:53Z")
My brother and sister got the chicken pox at about the same time when they were 6 and 4, respectively. I was 11 at the time, and had never had it before. I haven’t had it since, which leads me to believe that I’ll be in for a doozy of a time if I ever DO get it! (my friend Phil had it when he was about 30… he was quite sick!) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/129 "2005-03-11T04:47:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > As to whether it’s worthwhile to bother vaccinating against chickenpox: consider that before the vaccine became available, there were 4 million cases of chickenpox a year, resulting in 11,000 hospitalizations and 100 deaths annually. > [Link.](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr4806a1.htm) > > Immunity following vaccination has been consistently demonstrated for as long as recipients have been followed (up to 25 years in Japan). > > More questions and answers about chickenpox vaccine from the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vaccine/varicella/faqs-gen-vaccine.htm). 100 deaths out of 4 MILLION cases? I’m sorry, but statistically, that doesn’t sound too bad at ALL. More people die from influenza than the chicken pox, I would imagine. My sister had it as an infant-she and I both caught it at the same time from the previously mentioned cousins. My mother had some concern that she might catch it again, since she was so young, but any time she was sent to play with friends who had it, she never caught it. And she had a very mild case. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/130 "2005-03-11T04:55:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The basic flaw I see in this conclusion is as follows (apart from the fact that immunity due to this vaccine has been shown to last at least for decades): if, as we are already seeing, cases of chickenpox decline markedly as a result of widespread vaccination, there will be _fewer_ kids with chickenpox in the future and _significantly less_ opportunity for adults to catch it and get more seriously ill. That’s the hope, reduce the virus so much in the general pool that it won’t matter much if the immunity wears off circa age 60 or so. But we still don’t know whether that will occur, and only time will tell. > [@](#): > > Vaccination (with or without a booster later on, the need for which has yet to be demonstrated) overwhelmingly alleviates the concern about getting shingles later on. I don’t know if _overwhelmingly_ is the right word. Per the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/nip/diseases/varicella/faqs-clinic-disease.htm#shingle-1-later), > [@](#): > > The VAERS rate of herpes zoster after varicella vaccination was 2.6/100,000 vaccine doses distributed (CDC, unpublished data, 1998). The incidence of herpes zoster after natural varicella infection among healthy children aged less than 20 years is 68/100,000 person years and, for all ages, 215/100,000 person years. **However, these rates should be compared cautiously because the latter rates are based on populations monitored for longer time periods than were the vaccinees**. For PCR-confirmed herpes zoster cases, the range of onset was 25-722 days after vaccination (Merck and Company, Inc., unpublished data, 1998). Cases of herpes zoster have been confirmed by PCR to be caused by both vaccine virus and wild-type virus, suggesting that some herpes zoster cases in vaccinees might result from antecedent natural varicella infection (Merck and Company, Inc., unpublished data, 1998). So we see the vaccine is no absolute bar to shingles. While preliminary evidence indicates the risk is lower than even for people who had chicken pox as children, the sample size is small, and the timeframe studied is small too. > [@](#): > > Getting back to the “chickenpox parties”, I would still like to see why it is thought anything less than socially irresponsible to promote infections that could harm or kill adults exposed to these children. I highly doubt that all kids attending these “parties” are immediately sequestered in their homes and for the duration of the infective period, and never get a chance to spread the disease to innocent bystanders. > **Jackmannii** , MD Granted, if the kids in the community are getting vaccinated, and the presence of the virus in the community is dropping, it makes little sense to expose them. But a lot of first world countries still aren’t sold on the benefits of the vaccine, and thus the virus persists strongly in the population, and the entire community regularly gets exposed far more often anyway. In that situation, trying to ensure your child gets the disease while young and healthy still has advantages. I’ll say it again: I recommended the vaccine for my patients as soon as the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force recommended routine use of Varicella vaccine back in 1996. And frankly I’m at the CDC’s website weekly in the course of my standard patient care work. **I am in favor of vaccinations in general**! But I (and a number of credible medical scientists) are worried that the long-term use of the vaccine _may_ have problems such as I’ve already described. I hope not. I hope Varicella does for Chicken Pox and shingles what the smallpox vaccine did for that disease. Or at least does for it what the MMR did for measles, mumps, and rubella. 'Nuff said. My original point was to argue that the practice of exposing your kids to the virus didn’t constitute child abuse or idiocy, nor was it yet evident that the vaccine was a panacea for all things Zoster. For that I get **dropzone** slinging feculent material at me, and deeming me unworthy of practicing medicine based on his projections arising from non-comprehension of what I’m attempting to say. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/131 "2005-03-11T05:37:42Z")
It’s a little hard for me to see what the fuss is about. Vaccinate if you want to, or expose your kids, or wait until a certain age and then decide. I was sent to play with children with chickenpox because it was summer and I wouldn’t miss school. Yes, it was itchy. Yes, I have a few scars. So what? Had the vaccine existed then, and had you asked me at the time, I’d have chosen chickenpox over a needle in a second. And I’ve had one outbreak of shingles, which was painful, but if one is at risk for shingles regardless or route of exposure to zoster, then shingles seems relevant only in the case of people who neither have chickenpox nor are vaccinated. I also was not discouraged from eating a certain amount of dirt as a child. My understanding is that these days, it’s thought that ambient exposure to germs strengthens later immune response. However, the huge clouds of parental cigarette smoke I was forced to live in have had lifelong deliterious effects on my health and functioning. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/132 "2005-03-11T05:37:51Z")
It’s a little hard for me to see what the fuss is about. Vaccinate if you want to, or expose your kids, or wait until a certain age and then decide. I was sent to play with children with chickenpox because it was summer and I wouldn’t miss school. Yes, it was itchy. Yes, I have a few scars. So what? Had the vaccine existed then, and had you asked me at the time, I’d have chosen chickenpox over a needle in a second. And I’ve had one outbreak of shingles, which was painful, but if one is at risk for shingles regardless or route of exposure to zoster, then shingles seems relevant only in the case of people who neither have chickenpox nor are vaccinated. I also was not discouraged from eating a certain amount of dirt as a child. My understanding is that these days, it’s thought that ambient exposure to germs strengthens later immune response. However, the huge clouds of parental cigarette smoke I was forced to live in have had lifelong deleterious effects on my health and functioning. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/133 "2005-03-11T12:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > 100 deaths out of 4 MILLION cases? I’m sorry, but statistically, that doesn’t sound too bad at ALL. Statistically, it’s not bad. But imagine if you were a parent who took your child to a “chicken pox party” and the child ended up dying as a result. (That is not to say that I denounce chicken pox parties. But parents need to know that there ARE risks.) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/134 "2005-03-11T14:19:14Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > 'Nuff said. My original point was to argue that the practice of exposing your kids to the virus didn’t constitute child abuse or idiocy, With which I still disagree, though I admit it was more logical before the vaccine was available. > [@](#): > > nor was it yet evident that the vaccine was a panacea for all things Zoster. Which I agree with, though in my, um, _enthusiasm_ I overgeneralized on its effectiveness. Still beats the hell out of having chickenpox, which it prevents in most children. [/QUOTE] For that I get **dropzone** slinging feculent material at me, and deeming me unworthy of practicing medicine based on his projections arising from non-comprehension of what I’m attempting to say. [/QUOTE] Though I overstated my case, I still disagree with some of your conclusions, like your support for deliberately exposing children to a potentially life-threatening disease because the vaccine _may not_ provide as much protection as you would like, and though I probably should not have said those things “out loud” I do not apologize for thinking them. And I still hyperventilate at the thought of an oncologist being so cavalier with the health of his patient but, as you said, it was a different era. ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/135 "2005-03-11T15:36:53Z")
Geez, adamyax…Just because I waited a while to shell out the change for a membership, I’m an implied newbie? Sounds like a weak defense to my masterful “ass” offense. As for “medical opinion” vs. “an opinion on medicine”…If Dr. Quagdop were offering a true “medical opinion” on a message board, I’d expect to be charged a co-pay and get a lollipop on my way out of the SDMB. Just because he’s a doctor does not make his off-the-cuff writings Hypocrate-canon. Semantics. I could go on for hours about clinical experience vs. a commensurate research knowledge base, but it’s not a contest to see whose opinion matters more. It’s an opinion, and your asking DropZone about his medical degree smacks of playground bullying. So…playground…go to…redux. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/136 "2005-03-11T16:44:14Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I don’t know if _overwhelmingly_ is the right word. Per the [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/nip/diseases/varicella/faqs-clinic-disease.htm#shingle-1-later), > So we see the vaccine is no absolute bar to shingles. No, and **absolute** protection is never conferred by any vaccine; nor was this my argument. A 25-fold (or considerably higher, according to your figures) reduction in the shingles rate looks pretty damn impressive to me. If one looks at the myriad of childhood infectious diseases that were prevalent before vaccines and focuses only on deaths, one might conclude that overall, relatively few kids died of these diseases and they were no big deal. Going beyond these preventable deaths, one sees many complications, some quite serious (in chickenpox, these can include pneumonia and central nervous system disease) that have both life-altering and economic impact. If a disease can be largely prevented by a simple, inexpensive and overwhelmingly safe vaccination procedure, it makes sense to utilize it. In recent years, we’ve seen resistance to vaccination arising among some groups, as part of an espousal of “natural” health methods, hostility towards government, poorly focused suspicions (as in the case of the MMR vaccine and autism) or simply irrational paranoia. As noted, measles cases jumped in Britain before the MMR vaccine-autism link was debunked. And [here’s what happened](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol4no4/vitek.htm) to the incidence of diptheria in the former Soviet Union when anti-vaccine views began taking hold. [Here’s more perspective](http://health.asiangate.com/English/Immunization_WhatWouldHappen.html) on what vaccination against childhood diseases has done for us, and what would happen if we slacked off. If one can justify resistance to getting the chickenpox vaccine on strictly medical/scientific grounds (and I don’t think the evidence supports that stand), fine. But it seems clear that the other reasons I cited are motivating some parents to avoid the vaccine. Their kids, and society at large are likely to pay for these attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/137 "2005-03-11T16:56:38Z")
Incidentally, for a good demonstration of tinfoil-hat anti-vaccine sentiment, check out [this site](http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james24.htm), which (embarassingly) is hosted by an M.D. (sadly, some of the leading opposition to vaccination these days comes from chiropractors). Don’t miss the anti-vax comments towards the bottom of the page, including the role played by the Masons, the Bilderburgers and others who promulgate vaccination as a “diabolically clever way to kill people”. For further online reading on anti-vax efforts, try Googling resistance to polio vaccination in Africa based on urban legendry and anti-Western sentiment, and the mileage anti-abortion groups have gotten out of false accounts of adulteration of tetanus vaccine to cause spontaneous abortion. They’re out there. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/138 "2005-03-11T16:57:30Z")
> [@Cemetery Savior](#): > > I could go on for hours about clinical experience vs. a commensurate research knowledge base, but it’s not a contest to see whose opinion matters more. It’s an opinion, and your asking DropZone about his medical degree smacks of playground bullying. So, it is okay for somebody to challange a person who we all know to be a doctor, but it isn’t okay for us to challange the layman? That is what you are saying isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/139 "2005-03-11T17:44:58Z")
FTR, I didn’t feel bullied. I thought it bordered on an Appeal to Authority logical fallacy, but not bullying. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712/140 "2005-03-11T18:10:17Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Statistically, it’s not bad. But imagine if you were a parent who took your child to a “chicken pox party” and the child ended up dying as a result. (That is not to say that I denounce chicken pox parties. But parents need to know that there ARE risks.) Well, of course. But it seems that the vaccine isn’t all that effective, and it comes down to what will keep said child healthier in the long run. If the vaccine isn’t very strong, and requires constant boosters and STILL doesn’t protect one from getting chicken pox, maybe it’s better just to get the disease when you’re young and get it over with. It’s all about deciding which risk to take. Now, I was innoculated against measles, mumps and polio, because in those cases, the risk of the disease was far far worse than the vaccine, which seems pretty routine nowadays and pretty solid. The chicken pox vaccine, though, is still pretty iffy. I think the vaccine was in its very early stage when I had the pox, and very few people were getting it. Oh, and can we knock off the whole idea that because some people are skeptical about the chicken pox vaccine specifically, they’re part of the wacky anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist nutjob group? I am not anti-vaccine. I am very much FOR it. However, I want to make sure that a particular vaccine is going to fucking WORK. What’s the point of getting a vaccination for a particular disease if it’s not going to prevent you from getting the disease? Especially if this disease is worse the older you are! For something like the chicken pox, if you HAVE to have it, you want to have it when you’re young. Getting the vaccine against it only to end up catching the pox when you’re older is a hell of a lot worse, one would think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-god-bonehead-parents-taking-their-kids-to-chicken-pox-parties/293712.md?page=8)