# Oh my Goddess **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 7, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518 "2015-05-07T20:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/41 "2015-05-08T13:26:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > [I disagree.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon,_Rome) > > But to stick with the direction you meant: I do understand what you are trying to say. The “theo” part refers to gods, and not supernatural entities in general. However, the word pantheon is defined in English as “all the gods of a people or religion collectively.” There is no reason this can’t refer to just one entity. If you are talking about a monotheistic religion there certainly is a reason! At any rate, I don’t want to nit pick the OP if he, indeed, meant to refer simply to “super natural beings” as opposed to “gods”. And I think **Johanna** is the closest to being correct here, although that harkens back to an ancient tradition that predates what most people think of when they say “Judaism”. It’s pretty clear from the Old Testament that Judaism arose from a polytheistic belief system into a monotheistic one. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/42 "2015-05-08T13:43:31Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Asherah. Yahweh’s wife. This is who I was coming in to mention. She was excised from most of the bible during the Exile. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/43 "2015-05-08T13:58:46Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Hm. On reflection, this article may have some information for you: [Sophia (wisdom) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom)) Just to expand on that, in the book of Proverbs, the character of Wisdom is very much personified, and the person is female. As is the personification of Foolishness also. I think that Sophia counts as an aspect of divinity just as much as, say, the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/44 "2015-05-08T17:52:01Z")
[The Shekhina](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah)is a Jewish concept, which appears in Rabbinical literature (although not in the Bible), and which translates as “dwelling” or “holy presence”. Because it’s a feminine noun, many consider the concept to be that of the Feminine aspect of the Almighty. Some also consider the Shekhina to be synonymous with the _Shabbat Kallah_, the “Sabbath Bride” or personification of the Sabbath. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/45 "2015-05-09T11:52:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > [The Shekhina](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah)is a Jewish concept, which appears in Rabbinical literature (although not in the Bible), and which translates as “dwelling” or “holy presence”. Because it’s a feminine noun, many consider the concept to be that of the Feminine aspect of the Almighty. Some also consider the Shekhina to be synonymous with the _Shabbat Kallah_, the “Sabbath Bride” or personification of the Sabbath. So I see that, in the Jewish Bible, there are feminine nouns used to describe what may be certain aspects of God, but only the barest hint of a carryover in the New Testament? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/46 "2015-05-09T13:33:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So I see that, in the Jewish Bible, there are feminine nouns used to describe what may be certain aspects of God, but only the barest hint of a carryover in the New Testament? There is only one God in Judaism, the angels are just his servants. It’s clear that the tradition evolved from one with more gods, but they were pretty well removed by two thousand years ago. But, that one God is believed to be both male and female, more masculine than any man, and more feminine than any woman. [QUOTE=genesis 1:27] So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. [/QUOTE] I think most branches of Christianity view God as male, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/47 "2015-05-09T14:12:27Z")
I had always presumed that the figure in Revelation 12 was Mary, and didn’t realize that there was any dispute on that point. In which case, yes, she’s very high up in the hierarchy (such as it is) of Heaven, but that doesn’t change the fact that she’s human. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/48 "2015-05-09T16:07:16Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Not in mainstream christianity. > > I vaguely recall something about the Gnostics believing God was four parts, not three, and they’re collectively a family - YHVH the Father, the Holy Sophia the Mother, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Ghost the Daughter. > > Hm. On reflection, this article may have some information for you: [Sophia (wisdom) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom)) and [Sophiology - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophiology) Umm, Orthodox Christianity is quite mainstream. Hagia Sophia is still popular in the Eastern Churches. The Hagia Sophia Church wasn’t the exactly the smallest and least important church in the world for centuries, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/49 "2015-05-09T17:47:57Z")
But the Orthodox don’t view Sophia as a Person of the Trinity (or Tetrity, I guess), nor as the Mother of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/50 "2015-05-09T21:09:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I had always presumed that the figure in Revelation 12 was Mary, and didn’t realize that there was any dispute on that point. In which case, yes, she’s very high up in the hierarchy (such as it is) of Heaven, but that doesn’t change the fact that she’s human. How do you figure she is human? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/51 "2015-05-09T21:39:23Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > How do you figure she is human? Well, she gives birth to Jesus over the course of the story. That sort of suggests Mary, at least. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/52 "2015-05-09T23:21:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, she gives birth to Jesus over the course of the story. That sort of suggests Mary, at least. It does suggest it only because of the extent that it is something we are comfortable with accepting, however this is not consistent with a description of that being. Either Mary is not the being in Rev 12 or Mary is not human and had a human like dual existence. Either way the being in Rev 12 is not human. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/53 "2015-05-10T00:09:40Z")
I’m not sure where the OP is going with this. FTR, of all the supernatural creatures listed in this thread I had learned of only two in Sunday School. Those were God and Mary. And Mary’s power was to intercede with God, which is somewhat less diverting than throwing fireballs or climbing walls. Heck even mortals can intercede, up to a point. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/54 "2015-05-10T00:15:28Z")
I know I’m going to regret asking this, but… **kanicbird** , on what do you base your statement that the being in Rev 12 is not human? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/55 "2015-05-10T00:22:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It does suggest it only because of the extent that it is something we are comfortable with accepting, however this is not consistent with a description of that being. Either Mary is not the being in Rev 12 or Mary is not human and had a human like dual existence. > > Either way the being in Rev 12 is not human. Or it’s a metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/56 "2015-05-10T01:23:52Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’m not sure where the OP is going with this. FTR, of all the supernatural creatures listed in this thread I had learned of only two in Sunday School. Those were God and Mary. And Mary’s power was to intercede with God, which is somewhat less diverting than throwing fireballs or climbing walls. Heck even mortals can intercede, up to a point. The OP is not “going” anywhere-there is no hidden agenda or followup. I just wanted to know the answer to the question I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/57 "2015-05-10T08:46:37Z")
I’m not sure where Christian belief begins and ends with regards to the OP. For example, I suspect named demons such as Metatron play less of a role in Christian imagination, while Sophia’s stock has gone up in certain New Ageish circles. The latter often borrow freely from non-canonical texts. In the Catholic tradition there are beings known as [Guardian Angels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_angel). Some are apparently female. Pope John Paul II: “Let us invoke the Queen of angels and saints, that she may grant us, supported by our guardian angels, to be authentic witnesses to the Lord’s paschal mystery”. There are also [shoulder angels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_angel), as I might characterize them: [INDENT][INDENT]In his 2014 homily for the Feast of Holy Guardian Angels, Pope Francis told those gathered for daily Mass to be like children who pay attention to their “traveling companion.” “No one journeys alone and no one should think that they are alone,” the Pope said. During the Morning Meditation in the chapel of Santa Marta, the Pope noted that often times, we have the feeling that “I should do this, this is not right, be careful.” This, he said, “is the voice of” our guardian angel…” “According to Church tradition”, the Pope said, “we all have an angel with us, who guards us…” The Pope instructed each, “Do not rebel, follow his advice!”. [/INDENT][/INDENT] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/58 "2015-05-10T11:43:50Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Pope John Paul II: “Let us invoke the Queen of angels and saints, that she may grant us, supported by our guardian angels, to be authentic witnesses to the Lord’s paschal mystery”.] This one, unless he is referring to Mary, seems pretty strong. Can anyone clarify this reference? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/59 "2015-05-10T13:25:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But the Orthodox don’t view Sophia as a Person of the Trinity (or Tetrity, I guess), nor as the Mother of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. A, And this has ??? to do with the OP? And B. Sophia became incarnate as Jesus. I.e., she was Jesus before Jesus. Ergo, quite certainly an aspect of the Holy Trinity. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518/60 "2015-05-10T19:07:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I know I’m going to regret asking this, but… > > **kanicbird** , on what do you base your statement that the being in Rev 12 is not human? How can such a being (being in the heavens and all, stars around her, her feet on the moon, given wings) be a human? It does not make sense, this is the revealing of what is going on in the heavens, we know what is going on on earth (and Mary was never written to visit the stars, nor to I see her as listed as a crew member on any Apollo mission). A very different birth but with some parallels (heaven and earth reflect each other but are not the same) This does leave open the possibility that Mary is not human, but a angel, which is possible given Hebrews 13:2 > [@](#): > > Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it. Angels can and do appear in human form, sometimes not distinguishable from humans in scriptures. But that would appear to place Mary (if she was the being in Rev 12) as not human but as a female angel. I could accept that, however Luke 1 seems to indicate that Mary did not possess angelic knowledge, so I do tend to discount that Mary was a angel. Also my believe that Jesus was a Nephilum (Hybrid) would sort of indicate that Jesus’ mom was a daughter of man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-my-goddess/719518.md?page=4)