# Oh No! 2009 record amounts of new US wind power **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702 "2010-04-11T05:01:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/81 "2010-04-11T23:25:58Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Pretty clearly you haven’t read this thread or others discussing the issue. For some bizarre reason people at the SDMB love to crap all over wind power. Cite? And I mean someone who’s saying “Stop production of wind!” and not “Wind alone isn’t enough”. Because those are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/82 "2010-04-11T23:44:29Z")
What **pedescribe** said. I haven’t read any other threads on this issue, but I haven’t heard anybody in this thread crapping over wind power. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/83 "2010-04-11T23:54:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It says that the anti-nuke fanatics have crippled the industry in America. That hasn’t kept other nations from building them. You mean France? Where they proudly claim over 70% of their electricity comes from nuke, but neglect to mention that 70% of their final energy comes from imported oil, coal, and gas not to mention 100% of their uranium is now imported? So much for energy independence. They also don’t talk about the cost of cleaning up 50 million tons of past uranium mining waste not to also mention the eventual cost of decommissioning their current aging fleet of plants. If nuclear is such a great idea, why is Germany next door phasing it out? Could it be their commitment to renewable energy, currently ahead of schedule at 16%, and well on track to hit 27% by 2020? What do they know we don’t? Oh yeah, how to generate renewable energy. > [@](#): > > Assuming that was true, we’d build them anyway, and eat the cost because we need the energy and alternatives like wind and solar and hydro can’t provide it. Or at least other countries would; I think the odds are good that you anti-nuclear types will keep us from building new plants until America suffers general economic collapse due to a lack of energy, and we lose the ability to build such plants (or your precious wind and solar plants for that matter) and end up a Third World nation. Or we build huge numbers of new coal plants, boost global warming even more and are ruined that way. Well, _we_ won’t build them anyway. I think it’s mainly resource poor South that is pushing the hardest for them, and they’re going to bend over and take it when they’re paying ridiculously high prices for energy while their neighbors to the north and west will be more than happy to sell them the alternative energy they’re working on. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/84 "2010-04-12T00:31:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You mean France? Where they proudly claim over 70% of their electricity comes from nuke, but neglect to mention that 70% of their final energy comes from imported oil, coal, and gas not to mention 100% of their uranium is now imported? So much for energy independence. They also don’t talk about the cost of cleaning up 50 million tons of past uranium mining waste not to also mention the eventual cost of decommissioning their current aging fleet of plants. Ah, and of course all the alternatives are clean, free and work. :rolleyes: > [@levdrakon](#): > > If nuclear is such a great idea, why is Germany next door phasing it out? Could it be their commitment to renewable energy, currently ahead of schedule at 16%, and well on track to hit 27% by 2020? What do they know we don’t? Oh yeah, how to generate renewable energy. Most likely due to anti-nuclear fanatics like yourself (even assuming those numbers are honest, which I doubt - 27%?! Suuuure). And if they phase out nuclear that just means they are going to go to coal or some other pollution source. > [@levdrakon](#): > > Well, _we_ won’t build them anyway. I think it’s mainly resource poor South that is pushing the hardest for them, and they’re going to bend over and take it when they’re paying ridiculously high prices for energy while their neighbors to the north and west will be more than happy to sell them the alternative energy they’re working on. Oh, garbage. Alternative energy will never even meet our present needs, much less provide a surplus. It has a hard time producing more energy than it consumes. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/85 "2010-04-12T00:47:13Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If nuclear is such a great idea, why is Germany next door phasing it out? Could it be their commitment to renewable energy, currently ahead of schedule at 16%, and well on track to hit 27% by 2020? What do they know we don’t? Oh yeah, how to generate renewable energy. > > Well, _we_ won’t build them anyway. I think it’s mainly resource poor South that is pushing the hardest for them, and they’re going to bend over and take it when they’re paying ridiculously high prices for energy while their neighbors to the north and west will be more than happy to sell them the alternative energy they’re working on. I have no problem with renewable energy. None. Zero. I encourage it, and its development. But 16% is nowhere near 100%. And we need something for the long transition, and nuclear is preferable to coal. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/86 "2010-04-12T01:58:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > How about we call you out on it. Where is the location of any new nuclear power generation source in the US? There isn’t one. At the very best that chart shows that existing nuclear plants are putting out more onto the grid from existing piles. There hasn’t been a new reactor connected to the grid in the US for decades. And there won’t be another for years to come. You are called out to stop linking to charts that don’t say what you say they say. Do you think people here can’t read your OP? Let me quote from it: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, nuclear energy has supplied not a single watt of new power in the US in the past 30 years, Your phrasing is improper and not supported by fact. You don’t have to like that, but you should at least have the honour to accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/87 "2010-04-12T02:04:03Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Thanks. The DPU in Massachusetts is a strong proponent of Smart Grid. It’s also pushing the utilities hard to get plans worked out and set up to implement the state’s [2008 Green Communities Act.](http://www.masstech.org/dg/gca.htm) How much energy will that save? We’ll see. Certainly demand-side capacity can’t take the place of new generation to meet need, but it can help to reduce the total GW we’ll have to construct no matter what resources find favor with developers and regulators. Ah, I remember well the demand-side management boom of the late 90’s. It was great - “people will switch electric providers on a daily, nay, hourly basis! Everyone will schedule their laundry at 3:00am to save a few cents! Every man, woman, child, and farm animal will be able to participate in a vibrant energy exchange, with individual households trading energy allowances.” They made DSM look like the average American was going to be going home and playing electric _Farmville_. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/88 "2010-04-12T02:17:22Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > If nuclear is such a great idea, why is Germany next door phasing it out? Could it be their commitment to renewable energy, currently ahead of schedule at 16%, and well on track to hit 27% by 2020? What do they know we don’t? Oh yeah, how to generate renewable energy. Because the Green Party was part of the ruling coalition for a while. Now it isn’t, and the CDU is starting to make lots of noises about cancelling the phase-out of nuclear energy. > [@](#): > > You mean France? Where they proudly claim over 70% of their electricity comes from nuke, but neglect to mention that 70% of their final energy comes from imported oil, coal, and gas not to mention 100% of their uranium is now imported? So much for energy independence. It’s worth noting that Britain expects to build 10 more nuclear plants (mostly as extensions of existing plants) in the next 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/89 "2010-04-12T02:35:48Z")
OP’s like this still give me some hope that us conservatives don’t have a complete monopoly on nutjobs. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/90 "2010-04-12T02:38:09Z")
Una, you are so stupid an so fucking arrogant about your own field of expertise. Did you even read your own cited table? It doesn’t show one new power plant or reactor. All it demonstrates is that existing plants put out more over the years, which as far as I know is due entirely to better steam turbines, etc. I’ve been here about two years now, and one thing I know is to read your posts very carefully because you are so full of shit and sloppy in your scientific assertions. There is no new nuclear generating capacity in the US for electric and you whine your way around it, but fucking steam (and increased uptime) is actually generating the increased amounts at existing, not new reactors. Read your own cites you moron and then indicate which plant has a new reactor and new capacity. You can’t and won’t because as usual, you are just fucking wrong. You arrogant sloppy idiot. Not one new nuclear watt. Not a one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/91 "2010-04-12T02:59:15Z")
What Una is so full of shit about in this instance is that she is pushing an interpretation of data cited that the data does not support. This isn’t unusual with her, but she does it with a snobby air of scientific certainty. She plopped down the data and asserted it supported her position without carefully explaining why there is increased output from nuclear plants: the same reason there is increase output from hydroelectric and coal plants (there are others from coal such as burning the coal more efficiently) it is because other technologies are more efficient. I am very skeptical of all of Una’s interpretations because they are often, like the table cited here, used in a way that does not shed light on the data, but to imply something other than what is going on. In fact, there is a nuke plant in New England that is losing its licensing because of safety concern, but no new nuke power generating sources. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/92 "2010-04-12T03:00:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because the Green Party was part of the ruling coalition for a while. Now it isn’t, and the CDU is starting to make lots of noises about cancelling the phase-out of nuclear energy. Yup, and their power company masters are going to dismantle the Renewable Energy Act which is directly responsible for the rapid growth of renewable energy. It’s all about large corporate profit and corporate greed to you nuke nuts. You’d rather destroy the planet than allow a penny of profit to pass from your corporate lords to independent and renewable energy producers. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/93 "2010-04-12T03:02:39Z")
And yes, I have a special blind spot about Una for exactly the reasons stated: she asserts her status as a scientist for using data to mean something it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/94 "2010-04-12T03:05:32Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It’s all about large corporate profit and corporate greed to you nuke nuts. You’d rather destroy the planet than allow a penny of profit to pass from your corporate lords to independent and renewable energy producers. I already said that I care nothing about whether or not it’s profitable. And the problem you keep ignoring is that renewable energy can’t do the job. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/95 "2010-04-12T03:09:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I already said that I care nothing about whether or not it’s profitable. And the problem you keep ignoring is that renewable energy can’t do the job. Bullshit. You refuse to admit it can, and anything that cuts into big corporate profit is evil. I’d say go look up renewable energy in Germany, but I know you won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/96 "2010-04-12T03:10:08Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Una, you are so stupid an so fucking arrogant about your own field of expertise. Did you even read your own cited table? It doesn’t show one new power plant or reactor. All it demonstrates is that existing plants put out more over the years, which as far as I know is due entirely to better steam turbines, etc. You didn’t claim new power plants or reactors. You made this claim. I will post it here: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, nuclear energy has supplied not a single watt of new power in the US in the past 30 years, Calling me names is not going to change what you posted nor make you correct. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/97 "2010-04-12T03:10:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Yup, and their power company masters are going to dismantle the Renewable Energy Act which is directly responsible for the rapid growth of renewable energy. > > It’s all about large corporate profit and corporate greed to you nuke nuts. You’d rather destroy the planet than allow a penny of profit to pass from your corporate lords to independent and renewable energy producers. Uh, no. It’s about practicality. I’m hardly a “nuke nut”; I’m pretty much agnostic on power generation, although I believe oil-, coal- and (to a lesser extent) gas-fired power generation should be phased out as quickly as economically viable. You can call me whatever makes you happy, though. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/98 "2010-04-12T03:12:07Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > What Una is so full of shit about in this instance is that she is pushing an interpretation of data cited that the data does not support. Allow to re-post what is contained in your OP: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, nuclear energy has supplied not a single watt of new power in the US in the past 30 years, And when you were called on it, your response is oppositional-defiant misbehavior which is really just not good. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/99 "2010-04-12T03:13:08Z")
Time for Haiku Rant OP is dumber than fuck Choke on smog, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702/100 "2010-04-12T03:14:05Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Bullshit. You refuse to admit it can, and anything that cuts into big corporate profit is evil. You…are the first person in my life to actually think I’m pro-corporation. Next, you’ll call me Christian. > [@levdrakon](#): > > I’d say go look up renewable energy in Germany, but I know you won’t. You already gave the numbers; even assuming they are true 27% by 2020 isn’t anywhere near enough. Using your own numbers, renewable energy isn’t good enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-2009-record-amounts-of-new-us-wind-power/535702.md?page=6)