# Oh, NO!! A school??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560 "2004-09-01T12:40:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/1 "2004-09-01T12:40:48Z")
[Fuckwad terrorists attack a school in Russia](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5881958/) Fuck fuck fuck!!! ☹☹☹☹☹ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/2 "2004-09-01T13:24:26Z")
I realize that Russia has [committed atrocities](http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/04/07/russia8408.htm) in Chechnya, but this is out of bounds. Loud and universal condemnation should ring forth from every mosque on earth. It is time for Muslim people of faith to clean up their houses and take back their religion. Yes, you are being bullied by Bush and Putin and I suppose Sharon, but killing their children will not bring back your own. You’re playing right into the hands of men who want the world to think you’re insane. And if you remain silent about this, you are. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/3 "2004-09-01T13:48:42Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I realize that Russia has [committed atrocities](http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/04/07/russia8408.htm) in Chechnya, but this is out of bounds. Loud and universal condemnation should ring forth from every mosque on earth. Why? Why do you claim that I have something to do with the acts of individuals who claim to be Muslim while acting against everything that should be regarded as commands in Islam. (And these types of actions come from a political background and struggle, so… eum… Even more “WHA ???”.) I have a question for you: If a lunatic atheist becomes a serial killer, do you then scream for every atheist to feel guilty about it and make that clear to the world. Somehow I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > It is time for Muslim people of faith to clean up their houses and take back their religion. I have my religion, thank you. Nobody is going to take that from me. My house is also completely clean and in order. > [@](#): > > Yes, you are being bullied by Bush and Putin and I suppose Sharon, but killing their children will not bring back your own. I must insist for you to explain why you think that I - or no matter whom that is not involved in the matters- have something to do with the actions of complete strangers in a country thousands and thousands of kilometers away from where I live. > [@](#): > > You’re playing right into the hands of men who want the world to think you’re insane. And if you remain silent about this, you are. Correction: **You** play the stupid empty comedy that ignorant prejudiced stupid people like to play and you obviously enjoy that greatly. I’m so sorry for you that your lunatical arrogant ignorance isn’t able to impress me one bit. Not one fraction of a second I shall ever think about feeling on single shred of responsibility for what someone else who claims to follow my religion does. Nor should any other Muslim do so. Try to sell your arrogant empty slogan “feel guilty all of you” elswhere. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/4 "2004-09-01T13:57:57Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Why do you claim that I have something to do with the acts of individuals who claim to be Muslim while acting against everything that should be regarded as commands in Islam. Because I don’t. What I claim is that you should condemn this act. No ifs. No ands. No buts. Period. > [@](#): > > have my religion, thank you. Nobody is going to take that from me. My house is also completely clean and in order. No. Your house is infested with squatters who have stolen your identity and are using it to commit unspeakable acts against children and mothers of children. Jesus took out a whip and cleaned His house when it became infested. You should do the same. > [@](#): > > I have a question for you: If a lunatic atheist becomes a serial killer, do you then scream for every atheist to feel guilty about it and make that clear to the world. Damn right. The atheists should join the chorus with everyone else. > [@](#): > > I must insist for you to explain why you think that I - or no matter whom that is not involved in the matters- have something to do with the actions of complete strangers in a country thousands and thousands of kilometers away from where I live. These strangers are using your name to do their deeds. You are not the one who committed the acts, and so you ought to be outraged. “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke. > [@](#): > > Try to sell your arrogant empty slogan “feel guilty all of you” elswhere. I haven’t said you should feel guilty. I said you should feel outraged. And you should express that outrage by condemning this act. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/5 "2004-09-01T14:02:20Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > I have a question for you: If a lunatic atheist becomes a serial killer, do you then scream for every atheist to feel guilty about it and make that clear to the world. As a matter of fact…yes. YOU may think that these extremists have nothing to do with you, but that is NOT what the rest of the “ignorant world” thinks. If you do not condemn, you support. In the minds of the world, those are the only options. Perception is Truth. You can ignore what you believe to be “the acts of total strangers” and stay in your comfortable little cocoon, or you can start to deal with the fact that as far as the rest of the world is concern, Islam = terrorism. By refusing to speak out, you are allowing the ignorant to be the only ones heard. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/6 "2004-09-01T14:03:46Z")
Ignoring the fact that children are being held hostage in his eagerness to defend every idiot Muslim on earth. A new low for our little Belgian. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/7 "2004-09-01T14:03:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Jesus took out a whip and cleaned His house when it became infested. You should do the same. You are _not_ the person to lecture others on cleaning out their own houses. Hypocritical asshole. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/8 "2004-09-01T14:06:20Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > You are _not_ the person to lecture others on cleaning out their own houses. Hypocritical asshole. :rolleyes: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5224915#post5224915](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5224915#post5224915) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/9 "2004-09-01T14:07:50Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Ignoring the fact that children are being held hostage in his eagerness to defend every idiot Muslim on earth. A new low for our little Belgian. I’ve gotta back him on this. Your moral position is holed below the waterline, **Aldebaran.** :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/10 "2004-09-01T14:08:53Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > As a matter of fact…yes. YOU may think that these extremists have nothing to do with you, but that is NOT what the rest of the “ignorant world” thinks. If you do not condemn, you support. In the minds of the world, those are the only options. Perception is Truth. You can ignore what you believe to be “the acts of total strangers” and stay in your comfortable little cocoon, or you can start to deal with the fact that as far as the rest of the world is concern, Islam = terrorism. By refusing to speak out, you are allowing the ignorant to be the only ones heard. > > Your choice. Exactly. As a Christian, I condemn Fred Phelps every time I see the name. I’ve never participated in any of his protests, but I condemn them all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/11 "2004-09-01T14:12:33Z")
They’re putting the children in the windows as shields. :mad: There’s about 100 parents–can they storm the hostage-takers? There’s only supposed to be about 15 of them. This is such a bad combination–crazy hostage takers who don’t care if the kids and themselves die, and the Russian police who might kill them by accident. Those poor kids. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/12 "2004-09-01T14:16:48Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Because I don’t. What I claim is that you should condemn this act. No ifs. No ands. No buts. Period. It is condemned by the fact alone that I am a normal reasoning/feeling human being = not other then you in fact are. That has nothing to do whatsoever with my religion, or even if yes or no I have a religion. What is so difficult for you to understand this? Why should I make about this any different statement they you do? > [@](#): > > No. Your house is infested with squatters who have stolen your identity and are using it to commit unspeakable acts against children and mothers of children. You do realize that when I interprete this the way you want it to come across, that you at the same time admit that I am in your eyes indead responsible for people I don’t even know? Well, that is then your problem, not mine. If you can’t separate the reality from the fiction in your mind, maybe you should seek some help to learn it. > [@](#): > > Jesus took out a whip and cleaned His house when it became infested. You should do the same. I don’t feel compelled to use violence in any way, als not on a domestic level. There is also nothing to clean up in my house anywhere. > [@](#): > > These strangers are using your name to do their deeds. You are not the one who committed the acts, and so you ought to be outraged. What name? Claim that they are Muslim? (I don’t know yet if that is the fact in this case, maybe you jump here to conclusions, but let’s assume that they are claiming it). What has that to do with me? There are billions of them on this globe. The only thing that is able to make me outraged is that they claim to be Muslims why they obviously have no idea of the religion they claim to follow. > [@](#): > > “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke. I think if you had done in your life the same work I have done on issues you have no idea about, out of free will and even at your own expense, then maybe you could have a remote justification to post this insult, thinking it would impress me. > [@](#): > > I haven’t said you should feel guilty. I said you should feel outraged. And you should express that outrage by condemning this act. See Above. I do not even remotely think about condemning such actions “because I am Muslim”. I react on it as every normal human being does, and you should keep in mind that you have no foundation whatsoever to think that you are able to command me anything. Let alone to “command” me to feel somehow connected with peope who do such a thing and therefore be “ashamed” or “outraged” or whatever because of the feeling to be somehow connected. I am not connected to them, I do not feel any connection with them and I see no reason to change that. Understood or what is unclear? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/13 "2004-09-01T14:19:48Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > There’s about 100 parents–can they storm the hostage-takers? There’s only supposed to be about 15 of them. 1 parent has already been killed resisting. The parents are (presumably) unarmed. The terrorists are armed and some of them are wearing bombs. I don’t think storming them is a realistic or desirable option. They’re going to have to rely on the Russian government negotiating them out. God help them. I really hope this situation doesn’t get any worse. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/14 "2004-09-01T14:22:39Z")
From [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/01/russia.school/index.html): > [@](#): > > Interfax said the hostage-takers had threatened to kill 50 children for each of their number killed by Russian forces and 20 for each wounded. Fucking monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/15 "2004-09-01T14:23:34Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5224915#post5224915](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5224915#post5224915) Hey, this is good. We’re going to end up with a convenient set of links to all of the situations where **Liberal** acts like an asshole, gets called on it, and refuses to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/16 "2004-09-01T14:24:01Z")
But Chechnya is far more a local separatist movement than it is anything to do with some global jihad. It suits Russia to paint it as the latter, for it has deflected the opprobrium of the western world in regard to Russia’s oppression of the region. Yes, Chechnya happens to be a region with a large Muslim population, but to demand that Muslims everywhere repudiate the rebels’ actions would be like expecting the Pope to have apologised for every atrocity committed by the IRA. By holding righteous people to ransom, demanding their condemnation every time an atrocity is committed, aren’t we focusing on entirely the wrong people? The terrorists did this, not Islam. It should go without saying that the act is appalling; insisting that some arbitrary group of people must condemn it or be complicit is simple emotional blackmail. **Aldebaran** didn’t do this any more than I did. Why should he have his condemnation demanded, while mine is at my convenience? > [@](#): > > They’re putting the children in the windows as shields. God, that’s sickening :(. Hopefully the number of children will prevent the authorities from trying to repeat their gas trick from the theatre siege in 2002… ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/17 "2004-09-01T14:24:48Z")
How nice. I see that the fools are gathering. But so sorry, I am not in any way compelled to feel in any way any connections with lunatics who take a whole school as hostage. If they claim to be Muslim or Christian or Satanist or Atheist or Jew or whatever can not change that one bit. You are the ones lining up with your hypocritical and disgusting reactions to my rightful refusal to connect myself with this **in any way**. Do you understand that? Do you understand you hypocrisy? Clean up your act because you make yourselves look extremely hostile ignorant prejudiced uninformed fools. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/18 "2004-09-01T14:24:55Z")
**Aldebaran** , what **Lib** is expecting of you as a Muslim is precisely what he and I feel is our moral responsibility as Christians – to “cleanse the house of your Lord” of those who defile His Name to the rest of the world by evil acts perpetrated in what they claim is His Name. I am no expert on the Qu’ran or Hadith – but is it not written somewhere that the Muslim must act, as he is able, to put an end to the acts of those who defile the idea of who Allah is in the eyes of those who do not know Him? That, not some nebulous responsibility or blame falling on you for being of the same faith as the terrorists claim to be, is what **Lib** is saying – that you, _by your own faith traditions_ and the morality to which Allah calls you, have a responsibility to your God to defend the holiness of His Name from those who would injure it in the eyes of others. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/19 "2004-09-01T14:37:50Z")
Aldebaran, your words might have some weight if it wasn’t for the fact that you generalize about Americans (excuse me- “USers”) all the fucking [time](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3594433&highlight=typical+hypocritical+disgusting+American+arrogance#post3594433). Since [you’ve asked](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4648239&highlight=USers#post4648239) why “the US’ers don’t come on the streets to protest their lying deceiving war mongering government” I’ll ask you why you haven’t come on the streets to protest those who have wrongly misappropriated Islam for their murderous causes. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560/20 "2004-09-01T14:39:35Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > **Aldebaran** , what **Lib** is expecting of you as a Muslim is precisely what he and I feel is our moral responsibility as Christians – to “cleanse the house of your Lord” of those who defile His Name to the rest of the world by evil acts perpetrated in what they claim is His Name. > > I am no expert on the Qu’ran or Hadith – but is it not written somewhere that the Muslim must act, as he is able, to put an end to the acts of those who defile the idea of who Allah is in the eyes of those who do not know Him? > > That, not some nebulous responsibility or blame falling on you for being of the same faith as the terrorists claim to be, is what **Lib** is saying – that you, _by your own faith traditions_ and the morality to which Allah calls you, have a responsibility to your God to defend the holiness of His Name from those who would injure it in the eyes of others. He’s already said that he doesn’t agree with their actions, and he resents the implication that this represents a failing in _all_ Muslims. Plus the implication that all muslims are flunkies of Bush, Putin and Sharon is pretty fucking offensive, IMHO. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-no-a-school/262560.md?page=2)