# Oh NOEZ!!!1!!1! Obama to Give Socialist Indoctrination Talk to School Children!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645 "2009-09-02T16:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/101 "2009-09-04T02:39:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The answer is that _you should have done then what we’re doing now._ > > Of course you back the guy when it’s your guy. And of course the other side backs their guy when it’s their guy. And since we know that, there _ **should** _ be outright disrespect for the office of the presidency: he should be tirelessly scrutinized and routinely derided precisely _ **because** _ Republicans will claim otherwise when it’s their guy in office, just like Democrats now claim otherwise for their guy. > > It’s all too easy for a man in that position to get deference while cloaked in authority; you’re demonstrating it right there, with a knee-jerk YOU WILL RESPECT THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY. Bush shouldn’t have gotten that; Obama shouldn’t get that; the right is trying to stop Obama from getting that; where were you when the tables were turned? Wait, what? I should have been a raving lunatic about imaginary bullshit involving Bush when Bush was in office? My problems with Bush weren’t based on made-up stuff - they were based on very real issues with his honesty, his integrity, and his willingness to involve us in disastrous policies. I didn’t like the actual text of his policies - I didn’t MAKE STUFF UP to be outraged about. And my point is NOT that I am demanding respect - I’m pointing out how the Republicans responded during Bush’s reign. My point is that the current raving lunatics are the very ones that would have gone apoplectic with rage had a elected Democrat called publicly for a boycott of a Bush speech to children, and demanded respect for the office of the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/102 "2009-09-04T02:39:45Z")
> [@ellele](#): > > I can’t imagine what weird boogeymen would occupy space in the skullbones of anyone who would be against a Presidential address to encourage kids to succeed in school. It’s a boogeyman wearing a hood. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/103 "2009-09-04T02:46:09Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Did you, in fact, make it clear that your post applies to both parties? I certainly did not interpret it so. > > Is it, in fact, your stance that no President of the United States should speak to schoolchildren? That’s too broad a question. It’s a waste of time to usurp time from all the classes. Many government agencies provide educational information on their sites as an extension of what they do and the White House staff is no exception. This is information that kids can access for research as needed for their class work. But as a general rule, yes I’m saying it’s a waste of everyone’s time. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/104 "2009-09-04T02:51:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It takes an incredible amount of hubris for a President to think the educational system is better served by listening to his words of wisdom rather than focusing on the curriculum he’s interrupting. Point of Order: This speech **IS** my curriculum. What do you have to say now, smart guy? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/105 "2009-09-04T02:51:18Z")
Only in some bizarro world is a speech by the President of the United States, lasting probably about an hour, a waste of time in a classroom. Such a speech allows students to understand a wider view of their society, allows them an invaluable opportunity to learn about civics and government, and provides many opportunities for incorporation in future lesson plans. I am astonished that such material would be considered a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/106 "2009-09-04T02:52:23Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > My point is that the current raving lunatics are the very ones that would have gone apoplectic with rage had a elected Democrat called publicly for a boycott of a Bush speech to children, and demanded respect for the office of the presidency. And they would have been wrong. > [@](#): > > My problems with Bush weren’t based on made-up stuff - they were based on very real issues with his honesty, his integrity, and his willingness to involve us in disastrous policies. I didn’t like the actual text of his policies - I didn’t MAKE STUFF UP to be outraged about. But he got a free pass – from the right, and from some sheep in the middle – because, despite very real issues regarding his integrity and honesty and willingness to involve us in disastrous policies, respect was given to the office of the presidency. It was a stupid thing to do then. It’s a stupid thing to do now. The office of the presidency shouldn’t get that kind of respect; it enables people like Bush. > [@](#): > > And my point is NOT that I am demanding respect - I’m pointing out how the Republicans responded during Bush’s reign No, you’re doing both. _“The answer, I believe (YMMV, obviously), is to say to the lunatics ‘The President of the United States is giving an address to children, and you will respect the office of the presidency if not the holder.’ You know, the same kind of thing that would have been said had the tables been turned.”_ First you say what you believe the answer is: it’s to say that YOU WILL RESPECT THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY, which is horrid. You then go on to say it’s how Republicans responded during Bush’s reign; it was horrid then, too. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/107 "2009-09-04T02:59:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Point of Order: This speech **IS** my curriculum. > > What do you have to say now, smart guy? You teach a class on presidential speeches? Good for you. What about the other million teachers who are trying to teach Math, English, and Science? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/108 "2009-09-04T03:04:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But he got a free pass – from the right, and from some sheep in the middle – because, despite very real issues regarding his integrity and honesty and willingness to involve us in disastrous policies, respect was given to the office of the presidency. It was a stupid thing to do then. It’s a stupid thing to do now. The office of the presidency shouldn’t get that kind of respect; it enables people like Bush. Oh, okay, I see what you’re saying. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > No, you’re doing both. _“The answer, I believe (YMMV, obviously), is to say to the lunatics ‘The President of the United States is giving an address to children, and you will respect the office of the presidency if not the holder.’ You know, the same kind of thing that would have been said had the tables been turned.”_ > > First you say what you believe the answer is: it’s to say that YOU WILL RESPECT THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY, which is horrid. You then go on to say it’s how Republicans responded during Bush’s reign; it was horrid then, too. Excellent points, and definitely correct. I retract my original “answer.” 🙂 Although I think it was a better answer than what typically occurred during Bush’s reign, where people who disagreed with Bush’s policies and behavior were regularly labeled traitors. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/109 "2009-09-04T03:09:46Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Only in some bizarro world is a speech by the President of the United States, lasting probably about an hour, a waste of time in a classroom. It’s actually slated to last 15-20 minutes. This tempest is taking place in an even smaller teapot than you think. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/110 "2009-09-04T03:16:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Has anybody already turned in **Furt** to the White House Enemy List, or do I get first dibs? I already got the toaster oven for ratting out **Scylla** , but next week its a bottle of Jameson’s… Considering how many people you turned gay just by your liberalness, how many toaster ovens do you have? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/111 "2009-09-04T03:18:48Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > It’s actually slated to last 15-20 minutes. This tempest is taking place in an even smaller teapot than you think. Oh Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick. Yea, that 20 minutes is SUCH a waste of time. Honestly, at this point I am just beyond flabbergasted that 1) an elected official would call for a boycott of a speech by the president and not be called out on it, 2) parents would pitch hissy-fits about their children listening to a speech by the president and 3) that the speech could possibly be considered a waste of time. The mindset behind those beliefs is so alien to me that I honestly wonder if I’m a different species. ---
**Author:** ![Novalyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@Novalyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novalyne)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/112 "2009-09-04T03:19:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You teach a class on presidential speeches? Good for you. What about the other million teachers who are trying to teach Math, English, and Science? As a science teacher (5th grade), I’m happy to offer my perspective. Yesterday, when we missed a half hour of class for a Boy Scouts assembly, I inwardly lamented the lesson I was forced to postpone, while simultaneously realizing that the boys were being offered a valuable opportunity to experience things that they lack in our low-income community. When the Power Team (or whatever they’re called) shows up at our school and spends an hour doing cool gymnastics moves and crushing stuff, I inwardly roll my eyes at the hokiness but simultaneously realize that the motivational message that they are giving the kids is a life lesson that is just as important as my lesson on the states of matter, which I’ll just teach the next day instead. When the fire department comes to show off their shiny new truck, when we have career day, when kids get pulled for an anti-bully assembly, when we have our patriotic celebration, when we have the Red Ribbon Week anti-drug events…I could go on, but I think you get the point. School is not just about science, math, reading, and social studies. It’s about life lessons and child development and creating better little human beings, also. I don’t think my students will be scarred for life by missing a science lesson. I think they will recieve a valuable message about staying in school, a lesson which can never be taught enough in the low socioeconomic environment at my school. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/113 "2009-09-04T03:19:59Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > This tempest is taking place in an even smaller teapot than you think. Espresso sized outrage! ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/114 "2009-09-04T03:22:28Z")
It seems like Kolga is channeling most of my thoughts on this matter so there isn’t much else for me to say on that. I do have an idea for a compromise so that parent’s don’t have to pull their kids out of school for an entire day, tin foil hats should be provided to these children so the President’s evil liberal socialist mind control rays can’t penetrate and damage their precious minds. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/115 "2009-09-04T03:22:58Z")
**Magiver** , just to be clear, are you saying an in person presidential speech, with all the potential learning that could go with it, would have no possible benefit to those kids? Or are you saying Obama’s economic skill is so great that even an hour and a half of not working on the economy is a detriment to us all? If it’s the second, well I’m sure Obama would be flattered, if took vital time away from the economy to read this. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/116 "2009-09-04T03:23:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You teach a class on presidential speeches? Good for you. What about the other million teachers who are trying to teach Math, English, and Science? Funny, I missed the memo about **Required Viewing of Our Leader’s Message**. You guys really have nothing left but vapid, empty knee-jerk responses, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/117 "2009-09-04T03:33:29Z")
I think I’m going to cry. Seriously, what the fuck is WRONG with our country? He’s giving a speech about working hard and staying in school – that’s SOCIALISM??? Seriously…I’m depressed. I don’t think I’ve ever been ashamed of my country…but I am right now. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/118 "2009-09-04T03:37:22Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Considering how many people you turned gay just by your liberalness, how many toaster ovens do you have? And you’d think at least one of them would drop me a note, maybe one of those “Thank You for Turning Me Gay!” Hallmark cards, but\* nooooo\*… ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/119 "2009-09-04T03:38:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think I’m going to cry. Seriously, what the fuck is WRONG with our country? He’s giving a speech about working hard and staying in school – that’s SOCIALISM??? > > Seriously…I’m depressed. I don’t think I’ve ever been ashamed of my country…but I am right now. Don’t be ashamed of your country for this. This has nothing to do with the majority of Americans. This isn’t what we’re about. Which reminds me, for some reason…I find it funny that when liberals are being irrationally pissy about stuff that’s going on, they say they’re leaving and going to Canada. When conservatives are being irrationally pissy, they tell the liberals they should get the fuck out and go to “some Socialist country.” I don’t know, I think it’s amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645/120 "2009-09-04T03:50:46Z")
So, to sum up: [ul] [li]The speech is only 20 minutes long.[/li][li]It’s not actually required viewing: individual schools get to decide whether to show it or not.[/li][li]It is in no way unprecedented for the president of the United States to address schoolchildren in a televised speech.[/li][li]The focus of the speech is on “personal responsibility and staying in school”–partisan goals, surely–and the previous language about “how you can help the President” was in reference to “how you can help the President _achieve those goals_”.[/li][li]No one is “encouraging students to be inspired by President Obama”; rather, there was a proposed discussion question asking students _if_ they were inspired to do anything by President Obama.[/li][li]Jim Greer is a raving lunatic.[/li][/ul] BUT! [ul] [li]Somehow, we liberals in the thread are the ones being disingenuous.[/li][/ul] Did I miss anything? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-noez-1-1-obama-to-give-socialist-indoctrination-talk-to-school-children/508645.md?page=7)