# Oh poor George (Cardinal Pell)...might have been easier to come home!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 17, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315 "2016-02-17T03:42:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/21 "2016-02-18T03:35:49Z")
Yes, I know that’s what people believe. I mean, I believe it myself. But they haven’t. And until they do, Pell would be an idiot to go back.
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/22 "2016-02-18T03:43:57Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> And until they do, Pell would be an idiot to go back.
Maybe, but thats exactly the point of this, put enough pressure on the rest of the vatican that they expel him. Stop giving him a cushy job, stop paying his legal fees. Let him face the court system exactly as any ordinary person would. Even if Pell is completely amoral then there should be some people in the vatican hierarchy who can exert some not so gentle pressure.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/23 "2016-02-18T03:48:16Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Flying first class with a doctor next to you and an oxygen bottle is also not any kind of physical exertion. Its about as draining as lying in a big comfortable bed for 12 hours.
That’s not exactly correct. An oxygen bottle increases the available oxygen, but not to sea level pressure. And of course there’s the travel to the airport, within the airport, and from the airport.
> [@](#):
>
> As for why he should back, there is a very strong feeling in Australia that he is being shielded by the vatican and he should come back to face his accusers, all of them, not just the ones that can be sent to Rome from the gofundme campaign.
On what facts are those very strong feelings grounded, though? He’s being asked questions, right? Why, specifically, is his answering via video teleconference insufficient?
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/24 "2016-02-18T05:16:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> That’s not exactly correct. An oxygen bottle increases the available oxygen, but not to sea level pressure. And of course there’s the travel to the airport, within the airport, and from the airport.
As has been mentioned he is not in an intensive care unit, he is well enough to work his job at the Vatican. Wheel chairs are available within airports, and he can be taken to and from the airport in an ambulance if needed. Other doctors who are cardiologists have stated that people with his condition can and do often travel.
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> On what facts are those very strong feelings grounded, though? He’s being asked questions, right? Why, specifically, is his answering via video teleconference insufficient?
Those very strong feelings are grounded on the testimony thats been given by survivors of abuse which happened under his watch. They are the ones calling for him to come back in person. More info here:
[http://mtj.net.au/](http://mtj.net.au/)
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/25 "2016-02-18T05:35:09Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> As has been mentioned he is not in an intensive care unit, he is well enough to work his job at the Vatican. Wheel chairs are available within airports, and he can be taken to and from the airport in an ambulance if needed. Other doctors who are cardiologists have stated that people with his condition can and do often travel.
Is he driving to work every day? Or is he working from home?
I know his cardiologist has said he should not travel. It seems to me that the other doctors are speaking in general and not as a result of an assessment of his specific condition. Is that correct?
> [@](#):
>
> Those very strong feelings are grounded on the testimony thats been given by survivors of abuse which happened under his watch. They are the ones calling for him to come back in person. More info here:
> [http://mtj.net.au/](http://mtj.net.au/)
I am asking why his testimony via video is not sufficient. I don’t see an answer in your response or in that link. Can you quote the section of that link that you believe answers that question?
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/26 "2016-02-18T06:31:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Is he driving to work every day? Or is he working from home?
Irrelevant, a trip to and from the airport in a comfortable VIP mini bus or ambulance is not strenuous, he can have a wheelchair and assistants to help him in and out. We’re not asking him to do a 3 mile jog.
> [@](#):
>
> I am asking why his testimony via video is not sufficient. I don’t see an answer in your response or in that link. Can you quote the section of that link that you believe answers that question?
Because the actual survivors of abuse think its not good enough and their opinion is good enough for me.
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/27 "2016-02-18T06:57:21Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Because the actual survivors of abuse think its not good enough and their opinion is good enough for me.
This.
Sure, Pell _might_ be able to give adequate testimony via a video conference, but he’ll be on his own territory surrounded by all of those who have sought to protect him from full impact of the Royal Commission enquiries. Many here in Australia (as has been mentioned before) believe that he has MUCH to answer for regarding his actions and inactions when bishop of the Ballarat Diocese, and later as Archbishop of the Catholic Church in Australia.
Now whether those beliefs have any basis is not for me to decide. I’m not a Catholic, nor do I personally know anyone who has been a victim of abuse by the Catholic clergy. What I DO know is that many are hurting and have been hurting for years, and that for Cardinal Pell to actually front the Royal Commission, in person, would be cathartic for them. While he hides behind the cloisters in Rome, he can be personified as an evil fucker…if he shows his face, it might well be an opportunity for victims to see him as just another human being.
The longer he draws this shit out, the easier it is for the average Joe to believe he DOES have something to answer for.
His PR team need to be sacked. And fuck him too…c’mon home George: we’ll have a welcoming committee at the airport when you land.
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/28 "2016-02-18T08:38:41Z")
> [@kambuckta](#):
>
> His PR team need to be sacked. And fuck him too…c’mon home George: we’ll have a welcoming committee at the airport when you land.
Yes and also, in any other organisation, allegations that you’d protected pedophiles in the staff you supervise would get you sacked or at the least demoted and moved to some dead end position in a back office in Alaska.
Somehow in the Catholic Church it gets you promoted to Cardinal and positioned in the Vatican where you can be shielded from local law enforcement. If the Catholic Church wants to be seen as having admitted to and dealt with the problem of pedophile priests it needs to set some examples and stop pulling this bullshit. Defrock a cardinal or two and we’ll believe you’re serious about dealing with the problem Francis.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/29 "2016-02-18T14:15:09Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Irrelevant, a trip to and from the airport in a comfortable VIP mini bus or ambulance is not strenuous, he can have a wheelchair and assistants to help him in and out. We’re not asking him to do a 3 mile jog.
The medical issue is not a comparison between a three mile jog and another activity, though. It’s about whether a trip by airline makes sense, in this circumstance, for someone with his medical condition.
To answer that, medical professionals typically would weigh the necessity for the trip against the risk. For example, if a hospital in Australia was the only one in the world with a team and equipment that could treat the condition, I imagine the risk vs. reward might tilt towards making the trip.
> [@](#):
>
> Because the actual survivors of abuse think its not good enough and their opinion is good enough for me.
But we – both in the United States and in Australia – don’t permit the victims of a crime or a civil wrong to dictate conditions like this. This is why we have commissions, courts, a discovery process, all governed by pre-existing rules.
With all due respect for their pain, they don’t get to make rulings like this. And I can’t understand why you’d think they should – it suggests that you have already concluded that the inquiry is not necessary and that Pell is guilty of all accusations. If that’s the case, why should he need to appear? And if it’s not, why shouldn’t he rely on the Commission’s rules and judgments with respect to how he can provide his testimony?
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [February 18, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/30 "2016-02-18T22:01:07Z")
You’re kind of missing the point of this pitting. Cardinal Pell is an amoral coward, both years ago when he was the Bishop of Melbourne and actively covered up for his pedophile underlings, and now for refusing to man up and face the consequences of his actions. This latest “too ill” to come home is just the latest in a long string of cowardice.
And if you think that he’s only doing what he’s legally allowed to do and Priests shouldn’t be expected to have a higher moral and ethical standard than the rest of the population then I have nothing to say to you.
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/31 "2016-02-19T03:49:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> But we – both in the United States and in Australia – don’t permit the victims of a crime or a civil wrong to dictate conditions like this. This is why we have commissions, courts, a discovery process, all governed by pre-existing rules.
>
> With all due respect for their pain, they don’t get to make rulings like this. And I can’t understand why you’d think they should – it suggests that you have already concluded that the inquiry is not necessary and that Pell is guilty of all accusations. If that’s the case, why should he need to appear? And if it’s not, why shouldn’t he rely on the Commission’s rules and judgments with respect to how he can provide his testimony?
The victims aren’t dictating anything. They’re abiding by the rules and protocols set forth by the Royal Commission. They’ve accepted (however begrudgingly) that Pell has a certificate to stop him traveling to Australia to appear. They DO have a right to be mightily pissed off by that, and to suggest an alternative.
The alternative is that a group of 15 or so survivors and support workers attend the conference in Rome. It’s still not determined yet whether this will take place, but I’m sure Pell and his advisors are moving heaven and earth to make sure it doesn’t. To be honest, I think the Royal Commission itself is getting pissed off with his shenanigans.
So how long does this go on? The hearing is due on Feb 29th this month. When does Pell put his big-girl panties on and face the music?
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/32 "2016-02-19T04:29:12Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Tool ill to travel my ass. I’m sure the Vatican could afford to buy him a first class ticket to Australia. Why is Francis still shielding this abuse enabler? So much for any meaningful change with the new pope.
There’s a good chance his dick is really sore.
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/33 "2016-02-19T04:51:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> There’s a good chance his dick is really sore.
Who? Frankie’s or George’s? 🆒
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/34 "2016-02-19T05:19:18Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Irrelevant, a trip to and from the airport in a comfortable VIP mini bus or ambulance is not strenuous, he can have a wheelchair and assistants to help him in and out. We’re not asking him to do a 3 mile jog.
Just to be clear: you’re basing your assertion that he’s sufficiently healthy to handle an airplane trip on both your personal training and experience as a physician, and on a thorough physical you’ve given to Pell yourself?
Because otherwise, I’m pretty sure you’re talking out your ass.
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### Author:  [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/35 "2016-02-19T05:27:01Z")
Molesters, liars, dissemblers, cowards (also hypocrites.) My Catholic faith wakes up from time to time, thanking whoever there is for not turning me into any of those.
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/36 "2016-02-19T05:28:06Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Just to be clear: you’re basing your assertion that he’s sufficiently healthy to handle an airplane trip on both your personal training and experience as a physician, and on a thorough physical you’ve given to Pell yourself?
>
> Because otherwise, I’m pretty sure you’re talking out your ass.
The question of coming to Australia via plane is moot. His Vatican-employed medic has deemed him unfit to travel, so whilst we on the sidelines can make snide remarks about the veracity of those medical certificates, they stand.
\*\*
coremelt \*\*isn’t talking out of his/her arse. He/she is echoing a growing sentiment here in Australia that Pell is using the medical industry to his own advantage.
Unless you have different evidence Miller, may I suggest that YOU’RE talking out of your own arse.
Or, if that’s TL;DR…read the OP.
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/37 "2016-02-19T06:25:02Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Just to be clear: you’re basing your assertion that he’s sufficiently healthy to handle an airplane trip on both your personal training and experience as a physician, and on a thorough physical you’ve given to Pell yourself?
> Because otherwise, I’m pretty sure you’re talking out your ass.
Not only are you defending a pedophile enabler, you are also so stupid you can’t even read the previous responses. Just because its the pit doesn’t mean you leave your brain at the gate. I’ve already posted that doctors have offered to fly with him (for free), and caridologists have stated that people in his condition often do fly.
He’s entitled to try and game the legal system, but we’re entitled to mock him for it and try to put pressure via the media and elsewhere to make sure he doesn’t get away with it.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/38 "2016-02-19T12:39:22Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Not only are you defending a pedophile enabler, you are also so stupid you can’t even read the previous responses. Just because its the pit doesn’t mean you leave your brain at the gate. I’ve already posted that doctors have offered to fly with him (for free), and caridologists have stated that people in his condition often do fly.
>
> He’s entitled to try and game the legal system, but we’re entitled to mock him for it and try to put pressure via the media and elsewhere to make sure he doesn’t get away with it.
And I am entitled in turn to calmly point out that your mockery apparently isn’t arising from anything but a desire to make Pell pay, his medical condition be damned.
You weigh the inchoate value of his accusers to confront him in person, as opposed to via video conference, over his medical concerns. And I infer that if he made the trip and died, your grief would be … muted.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/39 "2016-02-19T19:00:55Z")
> [@kambuckta](#):
>
> The question of coming to Australia via plane is moot. His Vatican-employed medic has deemed him unfit to travel, so whilst we on the sidelines can make snide remarks about the veracity of those medical certificates, they stand.
> \*\*
> coremelt \*\*isn’t talking out of his/her arse. He/she is echoing a growing sentiment here in Australia that Pell is using the medical industry to his own advantage.
>
> Unless you have different evidence Miller, may I suggest that YOU’RE talking out of your own arse.
> Or, if that’s TL;DR…read the OP.
So, your evidence is … “growing sentiment”? Um …
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/40 "2016-02-19T20:00:00Z")
> [@kambuckta](#):
>
> Unless you have different evidence Miller, may I suggest that YOU’RE talking out of your own arse…
“Different” evidence? That implies someone has offered some sort of evidence in the first place. What evidence has **coremelt** advanced for his claim that it’s perfectly okay for Pell to get on a plane?
Incidentally, the word of doctors who have not actually examined Pell does not count as evidence - I mention this more for coremelt’s benefit than your own, on account of that thinking problem he has.
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Not only are you defending a pedophile enabler…
BZZT! Oh, sorry, that’s an incorrect answer, which means you do not advance to the bonus round, and will not be eligible for the all-expense paid trip to Maui. But we do have this lovely starting gift for you: _Basic Logic for Exceptionally Stupid People_, a book for which you clearly have a deep and personal need.
Pointing out that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about is not the same thing as defending Pell, who, for all I care, could be fed to a pack of starving alpacas. Next time, try to remember to leave your brain in gear before posting, otherwise, I’m afraid you’re going to continue to embarrass yourself in this fashion.
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