# Oh poor George (Cardinal Pell)...might have been easier to come home!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 17, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315 "2016-02-17T03:42:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 12
**Page:** 27
### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/521 "2020-04-08T14:00:35Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#):
>
> I haven’t read the whole thread and I am not a supporter of Catholicism or Republicanism (far from it, in fact) but I feel the recent criticism of Bricker here is unfair, at least in relation to the way he has conducted himself on his return. I hope he sticks around - we could all use a bit of perspective from the other side of the debate at times, and although I appreciate Bricker’s debating style and personal preferences can rub people up the wrong way, he does seem to me to stick to facts and admit when he’s wrong, which are rather rare commodities on this board.
Agreed.
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2020, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/522 "2020-04-09T05:14:41Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#):
>
> My view is that Princhester (and Bricker) were restricting their arguments in this thread to points of fact/law.
>
> Nonetheless, I don’t believe Bricker is a defender of pedophilia or child abuse and I would rather have him around to debate things with even if many of us don’t agree with his politics, religion, or posting style.
I agree with all of the above.
However it seems that Bricker, in particular, has focused entirely on the church as a theoretical institution with a PDS of rules, regulations and rituals. He’s forgotten that the church is made of people, human beings.
And it seems to me that, while he definitely doesn’t advocate child abuse, he is prepared to dismiss it if the church and its credibility is in any way threatened.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/523 "2020-04-09T14:24:51Z")
> [@kambuckta](#):
>
> However it seems that Bricker, in particular, has focused entirely on the church as a theoretical institution with a PDS of rules, regulations and rituals. He’s forgotten that the church is made of people, human beings.
Actually he has focused, as he often does, on the legal justice system, and its rules. And the rules are in place exactly because human beings are fallible, and subject to bias and the desire to bypass the rules when they are inconvenient.
I don’t know if it is the same in Australia, but the concept in the US is that “we are a nation of laws, not men”. It doesn’t matter, or it shouldn’t, who the human being is - everyone is subject to the same laws, even when accused of horrible crimes.
“Let’s not worry about the rules just this once, because he is obviously guilty/a child molester/a murderer/a terrorist/a Roman Catholic bishop/one of Those People” doesn’t work.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/524 "2020-04-09T14:30:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Actually he has focused, as he often does, on the legal justice system, and its rules.
This. He knows the law and can discuss it away from any other considerations. I really enjoy reading what he writes, although I think we are on opposite ends of the spectrum, philosophically.
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### Author:  [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2020, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/525 "2020-04-18T08:14:33Z")
I did one of my rare vanity searches here to see what’s been up. Interesting.
> [@AK84](#):
>
> I believe the term “travesty” and “miscarriage” are in order. It was as perverse a conviction as I have ever seen.
Indeed. But once the lynch mob gets its blood up…
It’s amazing to read the number of commentary articles in the media that flat out admit that Pell’s conviction was about the sins of the RCC in general _and appear to believe that is acceptable._
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> I was still wrong about my prediction, of course, that Pell would not be convicted. But now it appears that Pell’s conviction was not a result of a reasonable jury’s verdict. So, there’s that.
You came very close to being right. See below
> [@kayaker](#):
>
> I’d go back a step. Should Albert have been charged, knowing that a jury would never convict, and even if it did, its decision would be reversed. Prosecutorial (is that a word?) fuck up, which was responsible for the error.
Hell. Yes. The prosecutor shouldn’t have proceeded but was (presumably) under too much political pressure to drop the case. The prosecutor (Judd) conceded in the High Court that if one witness’s evidence (that of Portelli) was accepted, there was a reasonable doubt ie that Pell should walk. And Portelli’s evidence _was unchallenged_.
That is beyond pissweak. That means she lost objectivity and didn’t do her job. Political pressure got to her. She knew there should be no conviction. But she didn’t want to be (metaphorically) lynched so she prosecuted. And from there it was all so tediously predictable - a jury almost certainly swayed by broader issues as they so often are in high profile cases, reasonable doubt ignored, conviction overturned on appeal.
The reality is the jury system sucks once a case becomes a public circus, but there is no (or no satisfactory) system for ditching the jury in such cases.
> [@Dead\_Cat](#):
>
> My view is that Princhester (and Bricker) were restricting their arguments in this thread to points of fact/law.
Thank you.
> [@kambuckta](#):
>
> I mean ‘interesting’ as a combination of astonishment and absolute disgust at the lengths bricker and Princhester contorted themselves to absolve the RCC of any culpability in its crimes against children.
>
> I’d sort of forgotten what scumbags they were. I remember now though.
Nice to know what you turn into when you don’t think someone’s listening. And your comment above about me absolving the RCC “of any culpability in its crimes against children” is factually inaccurate and grossly abusive. But as if I care. You are just one of many wilfully ignorant and stupid people who are unable to distinguish between one thing and another when you are angry enough.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2020, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/526 "2020-05-07T07:39:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Cardinal George Pell was aware of children being sexually abused within the Archdiocese of Ballarat by notorious paedophile priest Gerald Ridsdale, Australia’s child abuse royal commission found, and it was “implausible” that other senior church figures did not tell Pell abuse was occurring.
>
> More than 100 previously redacted pages of the child abuse royal commission report relating to Cardinal George Pell and what he knew about child sexual abuse within the Catholic church were tabled to parliament on Thursday morning.
>
> While the commission delivered its final report to parliament in December 2017 following a comprehensive five year inquiry into abuse in institutions throughout Australia, survivors and advocates have been forced to wait for the findings relating to Pell because of legal action against him.
> **[George Pell: cardinal was aware of children being sexually abused, royal...](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/may/07/george-pell-cardinal-was-aware-of-children-being-sexually-abused-royal-commission-report-reveals)**
>
> Previously redacted findings from the commission’s report into Pell’s handling of child sexual abuse claims have now been made public
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2020, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/527 "2020-05-07T09:30:55Z")
Too late.
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### Author:  [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2020, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/528 "2020-10-05T08:18:11Z")
Allegations that a rival Cardinal bribed witnesses to secure Pell’s conviction.
Damn it’s like the 15th century.
> **[Sacked cardinal accused of using Vatican funds to bribe witnesses in Pell's...](https://7news.com.au/news/world/sacked-cardinal-giovanni-angelo-becciu-denies-interfering-in-george-pell-sex-abuse-trial-c-1364174)**
>
> Angelo Becciu has been accused of using AUD1.1 million of Vatican funds in a bid to ensure 'hostile testimony' in Pell’s trial, a claim he refutes.
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### Author:  [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)
#### Post date: [January 10, 2023, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/529 "2023-01-10T23:05:25Z")
And George is gone.
[Cardinal George Pell has died.](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-11/cardinal-george-pell-has-died/101843096)
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### Author:  [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/530 "2023-01-11T01:24:52Z")
… another reason why going to heaven might not be all it’s cracked up to be.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/531 "2023-01-11T01:30:49Z")
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN-EnjnwrSA)
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### Author:  [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2023, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-poor-george-cardinal-pell-might-have-been-easier-to-come-home/746315/532 "2023-01-11T09:06:34Z")
“Those whom the gods love, die young”. George Pell was 81.
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