# Oh...shit. Turkey and the Kurds **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432 "2007-05-25T00:05:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/1 "2007-05-25T00:05:06Z")
I was just reading [this](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/05/24/turkey.terror/index.html) article about possible plans for Turkey to attack the PKK (the Kurdistan Workers Party) for their alleged attack on the [Ankara](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/05/23/turkey.explosion/index.html) shopping district. Of course, the PKK denies that they were responsible…however, the war drums are apparently banging in Turkey and the populous is calling for blood. > [@](#): > > ANKARA, Turkey (CNN) – The war drums are getting louder in Turkey, and they can be heard next door in the Kurdish region of northern Iraq, and across the globe in Washington as well. > > Many Turkish officials and citizens – enraged by Tuesday’s deadly bombing – want the Turkish military to hit back at the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, the hard-line Kurdish separatist group thought by many in the government and on the street to have staged the blast and other militant actions. > > At least six people died and more than 100 were injured in the rush hour bombing at an Ankara shopping district. (Full story) > > Senior Turkish officers have said that operations against the PKK would require troops to cross into the Kurdish region of northern Iraq, which many PKK militants – also long situated in southeastern Turkey – have chosen as their base. > > The PKK denies involvement in the Ankara attack, and a U.S. State Department spokesman cautions that the investigation into the attack is “ongoing.” > > However, the outrage in Turkey toward the PKK has been boiling over. > > On Thursday, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that if the military were to request a retaliation, the parliament, which is dominated by Erdogan’s AK party, would support it. > > Turkey’s army chief, Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, said recently his troops are ready to attack what he calls Kurdish terrorist camps in northern Iraq. And retired Turkish Gen. Edip Baser told CNN he believes an operation could be just weeks away. > > As late as two weeks ago, there were an estimated 150,000 Turkish soldiers on or near the Turkish-Iraq border, and the PKK has stepped up cross-border attacks into the Kurdish region of Turkey now that snows have melted in the border mountains. This is definitely my definition of an ‘Oh shit!’ moment…or at least the potential for one. This conflict has been brewing for a LONG time…but (at least I though) the possibility of inclusion of Turkey in the EU had put it on the back burner. Sort of. However, it looks like the pot may be boiling over…and that Turkey has its sights set on Northern Iraq as well. For debate…gods, where to start? What will Turkey do? Thus far the PKK has denied they were responsible for the bombing…but afaik no one else has claimed responsiblity. That seems…odd to me, in and of itself. Why do something like that and then not claim responsibility for the propaganda value? Be that as it may…should Turkey at least wait until this thing is properly investigated before even considering such a drastic move? What will the Euro’s do if Turkey DOES pursue the military option? What will the US do if Turkey takes a large military force into Northern Iraq? Hell, what will the Kurds do? The non-Kurdist Iraqi’s? -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/2 "2007-05-25T00:17:15Z")
The Turks crossing into Iraq would put the U.S. in a very difficult position. The Turks have been our allies for decades, but the Iraqi Kurds have been our best allies in Iraq up to now. And there’s no way we can avoid choosing sides. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/3 "2007-05-25T00:20:37Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The Turks crossing into Iraq would put the U.S. in a very difficult position. The Turks have been our allies for decades, but the Iraqi Kurds have been our best allies in Iraq up to now. And there’s no way we can avoid choosing sides. [/QUOTE] But they could claim they are fighting the “War on Terror”. Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are the Achilles Heel of the “War on Terror”. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/4 "2007-05-25T00:43:34Z")
I’d be amazed if this turned into anything serious. The last thing the Turks want is to destabilize the only stable pocket of Iraq – a pocket which happens to provide a bulwark against the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi refugees who would otherwise be flooding into Turkey, oh, right about now. Ankara has to rattle its sabers a little to appease the populace, and maybe even stage a limited cross-border raid or two, but it’d be lunacy for them to do more than that. And you can believe that the U.S. will do anything it can think of to keep a lid on the situation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/5 "2007-05-25T00:55:03Z")
What would it take, I wonder, to win independence for Turkish Kurdistan? Is there any way the U.S. could simply **buy** it? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/6 "2007-05-25T01:09:03Z")
Gee, you’d think this was such a difficult outcome to predict four years ago when we were talking about taking out Saddam and creating a power vacuum in Iraq. NOBODY could have foreseen that Turkey and the Kurds would go nose-to-nose… ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/7 "2007-05-25T01:12:49Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Is there any way the U.S. could simply **buy** it? [/QUOTE] Would you want to be the US president who sells a handful of states to a foreign power? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/8 "2007-05-25T01:14:19Z")
[QUOTE=kellner] Would you want to be the US president who sells a handful of states to a foreign power? [/QUOTE] Which states? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/9 "2007-05-25T01:39:11Z")
I wouldn’t mind giving Texas back to Mexico . . . ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/10 "2007-05-25T01:45:15Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] This is definitely my definition of an ‘Oh shit!’ moment… [/QUOTE] Cheer up! [It’s not](http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=112001)_just_ the Turks: > [@](#): > > The Iranian army entered northern Iraq and was shelling the Hajumran area, reported Iraqi President Jalal Talabani’s Iraqi Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) PUKmedia news site. The Iranian army was pursuing terrorists of the anti-Iranian Party of Free Life in Kurdistan (Pejak), a group linked to the PKK. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/11 "2007-05-25T01:46:26Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Cheer up! [It’s not](http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=112001)_just_ the Turks: 🙂 [/QUOTE] I smell a new pretext for the U.S. invading Iran . . . ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/12 "2007-05-25T01:51:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I smell a new pretext for the U.S. invading Iran . . . [/QUOTE] [Iran’s secret plan for summer offensive to force US out of Iraq](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2085192,00.html) > [@](#): > > Iran is secretly forging ties with al-Qaida elements and Sunni Arab militias in Iraq in preparation for a summer showdown with coalition forces intended to tip a wavering US Congress into voting for full military withdrawal, US officials say. > … > The official said US commanders were bracing for a nationwide, Iranian-orchestrated summer offensive, linking al-Qaida and Sunni insurgents to Tehran’s Shia militia allies, that Iran hoped would trigger a political mutiny in Washington and a US retreat. "We expect that al-Qaida and Iran will both attempt to increase the propaganda and increase the violence prior to Petraeus’s report in September -May 22: From The Guardian, of all places? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/13 "2007-05-25T01:59:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What would it take, I wonder, to win independence for Turkish Kurdistan? Is there any way the U.S. could simply **buy** it? [/QUOTE] The US has been trying to placate the Turks on the Kurds by supporting their entry into the EU. Of course the US doesn’t have a lot of pull with Europe these days because of the invasion of Iraq, which is why they need to placate the Turks. The Turks have been active in the Kurdish region of Iraq for years. In 2003, US forces arrested Turkish special forces in the Kurdish north, [link](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/06/1057430075615.html) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/14 "2007-05-25T02:29:15Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What would it take, I wonder, to win independence for Turkish Kurdistan? Is there any way the U.S. could simply **buy** it? [/QUOTE] Not the USA. But the European Union might. Would Turkey give up it’s Kurdish provinces in exchange for membershio in the EU? Of course Europe’s not going to let Turkey join anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/15 "2007-05-26T09:08:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The Turks crossing into Iraq would put the U.S. in a very difficult position. The Turks have been our allies for decades, but the Iraqi Kurds have been our best allies in Iraq up to now. And there’s no way we can avoid choosing sides. [/QUOTE] The US couldn’t (and wouldn’t) complain. The Kurds have been killing Turkish civilians for decades, and Turkey is getting fed up. The US wouldn’t put up with this happening on its own soil; it can hardly criticize Turkey for failing to put up with it. (Of course, Turkey has treated the Kurds like total shit over the years, but that’s a separate question.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/16 "2007-05-28T23:18:59Z")
Update: On Wednesday, the Coalition forces will [formally hand over security responsibilities in northern Iraq to the Kurdish Peshmerga.](http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/17792) So, that means if the Turks cross the border, the U.S./UK troops at least won’t be expected to fight them directly – right? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/17 "2007-05-29T05:06:24Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Turkey and the Kurds [/QUOTE] Band name! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/18 "2007-05-29T05:34:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] The US couldn’t (and wouldn’t) complain. The Kurds have been killing Turkish civilians for decades, and Turkey is getting fed up. The US wouldn’t put up with this happening on its own soil; it can hardly criticize Turkey for failing to put up with it. (Of course, Turkey has treated the Kurds like total shit over the years, but that’s a separate question.) [/QUOTE] How is that a separate question?! ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/19 "2007-05-29T05:35:04Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I wouldn’t mind giving Texas back to Mexico . . . [/QUOTE] Texas was an independent republic when it was accepted into the United States, not part of Mexico, and it had been for about 10 years IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432/20 "2007-05-29T05:45:15Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Texas was an independent republic when it was accepted into the United States, not part of Mexico, and it had been for about 10 years IIRC. [/QUOTE] Give it to Mexico anyway. An independent Texas is not something any decent person should wish on the world. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-shit-turkey-and-the-kurds/405432.md?page=2)