# Oh silly, of course they didn't mean it that way! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385 "2005-12-28T01:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Giant\_Spongess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@Giant\_Spongess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giant_Spongess)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/1 "2005-12-28T01:32:42Z")
[Apparently](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-birthright10dec10,0,1354756.story?coll=la-home-headlines), the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to the children of illegal immigrants. Now, I spent most of my anger by running around the house sputtering, so all I can say is, “What the fuck are they thinking?!” It’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen attempted by Our Good Friends. It’s just so nonsensical! ---
**Author:** ![Lisa\_Ann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lisa\_Ann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa_Ann)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/2 "2005-12-28T01:41:27Z")
> [@Giant\_Spongess](#): > > [Apparently](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-birthright10dec10,0,1354756.story?coll=la-home-headlines), the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to the children of illegal immigrants. > > Now, I spent most of my anger by running around the house sputtering, so all I can say is, “What the fuck are they thinking?!” It’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen attempted by Our Good Friends. It’s just so nonsensical! I apparently can’t tell if you’re ‘For’ or ‘Against.’ I personally think it’s about fucking time. How is it nonsensical? I was born and raised in Cailfornia and have seen the effects of illegal immigration firsthand. Nice rant. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/3 "2005-12-28T01:53:59Z")
> [@Lisa Ann](#): > > I was born and raised in Cailfornia and have seen the effects of illegal immigration firsthand. What are the effects that you’ve seen? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/4 "2005-12-28T01:58:13Z")
> [@Lisa Ann](#): > > I was born and raised in Cailfornia Me too. > [@](#): > > and have seen the effects of illegal immigration firsthand. Yeah, all that cheap and plentiful produce in the stores really galls me sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/5 "2005-12-28T02:01:52Z")
Almost forgot to include [this gem.](http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/immigrant.gif) . ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/6 "2005-12-28T02:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > and have seen the effects of illegal immigration firsthand > > Yeah, all that cheap and plentiful produce in the stores really galls me sometimes. No, I think it’s all the clean dishes in the restaurants she’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/7 "2005-12-28T02:20:36Z")
> [@Giant\_Spongess](#): > > [Apparently](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-birthright10dec10,0,1354756.story?coll=la-home-headlines), the 14th amendment doesn’t apply to the children of illegal immigrants. > > Now, I spent most of my anger by running around the house sputtering, so all I can say is, “What the fuck are they thinking?!” It’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen attempted by Our Good Friends. It’s just so nonsensical! Well, the 14th Amendment says: > [@](#): > > Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. I believe the issue is exactly what “…and subject to the jurisdiction thereof…” means. I think it means what it says. Changing it may be a good idea, but let’s do it by amending the Constitution, not by passing a law. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/8 "2005-12-28T02:25:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, the 14th Amendment says: > > I believe the issue is exactly what “…and subject to the jurisdiction thereof…” means. > > I think it means what it says. Changing it may be a good idea, but let’s do it by amending the Constitution, not by passing a law. That would never fly. They will slip in through the backdoor. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/9 "2005-12-28T02:33:17Z")
> [@Lisa Ann](#): > > I was born and raised in Cailfornia and have seen the effects of illegal immigration firsthand. Now that’s the sort of expert, personalized experience that can only be found in a select handful of individuals. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/10 "2005-12-28T02:51:20Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Yeah, all that cheap and plentiful produce in the stores really galls me sometimes. Just think of all the cheap cotton we used to have before the Late Unpleasantness. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/11 "2005-12-28T02:56:16Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Just think of all the cheap cotton we used to have before the Late Unpleasantness. Will you please explain what you mean by comparing illegal immigrants to slaves? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/12 "2005-12-28T03:04:12Z")
If this is a real problem (and I emphasize “if”), then why not deal with it on the other end-- make it harder (or impossible) for people who were in the country illegally to use the family immigration process. Trying to fudge a constitutional amendment this way is not good lawmaking. But, go ahead. Someone will challenge it in the courts very quickly, and it willl be declared unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/13 "2005-12-28T03:05:17Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Will you please explain what you mean by comparing illegal immigrants to slaves? Use your imagination. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/14 "2005-12-28T03:07:37Z")
I didn’t say it, but I will say that the comparison to slavery may be because we here in the USA, by tolerating this illegal immigration thingy, have got ourselves a nice little underclass. An underclass that will do jobs we won’t do for so little money, because we aren’t desperate enough. Lovely, ain’t it? Perhaps it’s better compared to sharecropping, but it isn’t pretty either way. Personally, I would rather see immigration enforcement tightened up, properly administered, and immigration itself opened up. Then perhaps the workers could earn a decent wage legally instead of almost nothing illegally. Yes, we would have to pay more for produce, but I’d rather have pricier lettuce than a permanent underclass in my society. Plenty of American citizens will do the labor if they can earn something resembling an actual wage from it–the argument that “they’re doing jobs we won’t do anyway” only holds as long as the wages are so criminally low. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/15 "2005-12-28T03:15:57Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Will you please explain what you mean by comparing illegal immigrants to slaves? Actually, I thought it was another Hal Briston reference… ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/16 "2005-12-28T03:22:29Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > > [@Metacom](#): > > > > Will you please explain what you mean by comparing illegal immigrants to slaves? > > Use your imagination. OK. You’re a fucking retard who is incapable of constructing a strong argument, and instead uses a crass analogy to invoke an emotionally loaded institution in a misguided attempt to add gravitas to your ephemerally idiotic beliefs. Now, will you please explain what you meant so I can shut my nasty little imagination up? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/17 "2005-12-28T03:49:05Z")
The 14th amendment could not be much clearer. The only way y’all can stop children of illegal immigrants who are born on U.S. soil from being U.S. citizens is to pass another amendment. ---
**Author:** ![TonyF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@TonyF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonyF)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/18 "2005-12-28T08:08:02Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > I didn’t say it, but I will say that the comparison to slavery may be because we here in the USA, by tolerating this illegal immigration thingy, have got ourselves a nice little underclass. An _underclass_? That’s a bit underwhelming, I think. The only validity I can find in that analogy is that they aren’t white and that they’re doing hard labor. Beyond that, the dynamics are way different. These people can climb the social ladder, for one; they come here by free will, for two; and three, it’s not uncommon that the situation permits that money can actually be sent back home. I’ve never heard of that happening under slavery. Not that I’m defending this interpretation, though. It feels … weasely. ---
**Author:** ![Lisa\_Ann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lisa\_Ann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa_Ann)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/19 "2005-12-28T16:54:49Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > What are the effects that you’ve seen? I’ve seen hospitals close because of illegals using their emergency rooms as free clinics. My mother-in-law works in the medical industry overseeing coding medical records for hospitals in the area I’m from and the majority of non-paying/non-insured persons were immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/20 "2005-12-28T17:07:18Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > What are the effects that you’ve seen? And I have seen Long Island waters fished out of several types of fish by illegal immigrants who don’t know, or don’t care about the fishing limits. I’ve seen Mexicans/Chinese/Vietnamese/what-have-you march down there and simply take armfuls of any kind of animal they feel like, including babies and pregnant mothers because they again can’t understand or don’t care about the limits. I am not going to come down firmly on either side of this issue but I get tired of hearing people all the time defend illegal immigrants no matter what, and pretend there is no negative to having them here. Perhaps you weren’t defending them, and were genuinely asking, so I am genuinely answering. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385.md?page=2)