# Oh silly, of course they didn't mean it that way! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385 "2005-12-28T01:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/61 "2005-12-28T20:22:00Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > What a silly question. Maybe you can start a thread and tell us what percentage of poor people are guilty of “stealing from the jar”. And then let’s compare the relative damage a poor person makes from this jar stealing and a CEO makes. > > Do you really want to go there? It’s only silly in the context of you’re misreading **buttonjockey** ’s original point: that the average CEO contributes more to society than your average poor person. You’re the one who turned that into a diatribe against Enron, as if that was typical of corporate behavior. > [@brujo](#): > > The rules for this are fairly strict already. A child claiming a parent must be 21 in order to do so. An illegal immigrant can’t merely have a child here and then immediately use that child to apply for citizenship. Yep, but that’s the main reason that this is a “problem” to begin with-- the relatives that do get to immigrate later. And, like I said, there are ways to deal with this (if it is, in fact, a problem) without playing fast and loose with the consitution. Just change the immigration laws. ---
**Author:** ![Lisa\_Ann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lisa\_Ann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa_Ann)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/62 "2005-12-28T20:22:22Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > No, no. You made the assertions. It’s up to you to support them, not us to disprove them. You are saying you personally have seen three hospitals shut down due to abuse of emergency services by illegal aliens. So let’s see some numbers. Three. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/63 "2005-12-28T20:29:01Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I remember reading that Teddy Roosevelt’s father had his mother rushed to the American Embassy (they were visiting Berlin, IIRC) when she went into labor with him, so he would be born on American soil. [Teddy was born in New York City on 10/27/1858](http://www.americanpresident.org/history/theodoreroosevelt/). But Teddy would have been a US citizen regardless of whether he was “born on US soil” or not since his parents were both US citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/64 "2005-12-28T20:32:39Z")
> [@Lisa Ann](#): > > Three. :rolleyes: Brilliant. So, are you unable to produce these facts that “everyone knows,” unwilling, or too stubborn? Oh, and you still haven’t answered my question about how children of illegal aliens born in this country are causing hospitals to shut down, given that, at least in this state, they are eligible for Medicaid services as soon as they’re born. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/65 "2005-12-28T20:37:03Z")
Gee, since my baby’s father is an illegal immigrant I wonder if she’d only be a half-citizen. I wonder which half they’ll count… ---
**Author:** ![Lisa\_Ann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lisa\_Ann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa_Ann)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/66 "2005-12-28T20:42:12Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Brilliant. So, are you unable to produce these facts that “everyone knows,” unwilling, or too stubborn? Oh, and you still haven’t answered my question about how children of illegal aliens born in this country are causing hospitals to shut down, given that, at least in this state, they are eligible for Medicaid services as soon as they’re born. I explained in a previous post that my mother-in-law works in medical hospital coding. I don’t have the hospital’s private records. I know it’s a fact and I don’t give a shit if I can’t link to it. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/67 "2005-12-28T20:42:22Z")
> [@Lisa Ann](#): > > I’ve seen three hospitals shut down. > > If you find percentages, please do share them. Which hospitals? Was the hospital’s treatment of illegal immigrants and their U.S. born children, the sole reason the hospital shut down, as opposed to say treatment of second generation Americans without insurance, or other economic factors, such as the rise in medical malpractice premiums? You are the one who is advancing the proposition that the illegal immigrants and their U.S. born children as responsible for hospital closings. However, you have not yet shown any study or article that would back said proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/68 "2005-12-28T20:49:20Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > [Teddy was born in New York City on 10/27/1858](http://www.americanpresident.org/history/theodoreroosevelt/). But Teddy would have been a US citizen regardless of whether he was “born on US soil” or not since his parents were both US citizens. Yes, but he might not have been able to be President had he been born in Germany. Hasn’t “natural-born citizen” been interpreted as being born on U.S. territory? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/69 "2005-12-28T20:54:22Z")
> [@Lisa Ann](#): > > I explained in a previous post that my mother-in-law works in medical hospital coding. I don’t have the hospital’s private records. I know it’s a fact and I don’t give a shit if I can’t link to it. I think what we have here is a misunderstanding of the word “fact.” Something your mother in law says doesn’t make it a fact just because she’s a coder in the records department. 1. She has no access to information showing whether or not the patient is in this country legally. 2. She has given you her _opinion_. Different from fact. As it turns out, a misinformed opinion at that. 3. While I am sure you’re very happy to accept hearsay as “fact,” most of the people on this board are not. If you are going to state something is “fact,” even "the sky is blue, you better damn well be prepared for at least three people to yell “CITE!” and then be able to back it up. For example: [Here](http://welfare.state.nv.us/elig_pay/medical_home.htm) is a cite for Nevada which states newborns are automatically eligible for state medicaid. [Here’s](http://www.ahcccs.state.az.us/Publications/GuidesManuals/IHSmanual/IHS-Chap_02Eligibility_2004_On-line.pdf) one for Arizona, and [_Here_](http://www.nyam.org/initiatives/docs/sunyexecsummary.pdf) is one for California, Florida, New York and Texas. See, that’s what we call backing up our assertions. “I just know it, so THERE!” does not fall under that category. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/70 "2005-12-28T20:56:44Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Yes, but he might not have been able to be President had he been born in Germany. Hasn’t “natural-born citizen” been interpreted as being born on U.S. territory? No, it means you were born a citizen rather then having become one by being “naturalized” after birth. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/71 "2005-12-28T20:57:02Z")
:smack: Frickin **Gaudere’s** Law strikes again. Can some mod please fix my lousy coding? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/72 "2005-12-28T21:04:55Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > I think what we have here is a misunderstanding of the word “fact.” Something your mother in law says doesn’t make it a fact just because she’s a coder in the records department. I dunno, if she’s anything like my Mother In Law, then it’s a fact. And if you know what’s good for you, you’d agree. I think we’ve been attacking the problem of illegal immigration from the wrong angle. What would happen if business licenses were suspended if a company hires illegals? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/73 "2005-12-28T21:15:15Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > I think we’ve been attacking the problem of illegal immigration from the wrong angle. What would happen if business licenses were suspended if a company hires illegals? You’d see even more fly-by-night companies that contract (illegal) labor to other companies (that wouldn’t lose their licenses, because they weren’t hiring illegals)? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/74 "2005-12-28T21:25:37Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > [Teddy was born in New York City on 10/27/1858](http://www.americanpresident.org/history/theodoreroosevelt/). But Teddy would have been a US citizen regardless of whether he was “born on US soil” or not since his parents were both US citizens. Okay, so our non-Rooseveltian parents are OK with their child’s citizenship. Now for a Norwegian economic development officer who has a child in Atlanta. Can the government interpret the 14th Amendment to say that her child is not a citizen? And what if the Emergency Room is closed because Ken Lay’s maid keeps coming in with a UTI? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/75 "2005-12-28T21:34:10Z")
> [@Lisa Ann](#): > > I explained in a previous post that my mother-in-law works in medical hospital coding. I don’t have the hospital’s private records. I know it’s a fact and I don’t give a shit if I can’t link to it. Well, that’s swell, but you’re not trying to prove it’s a fact to yourself, you need to prove it’s a fact to everyone reading this thread. I can post that illegal immigrants shit gold and piss liquid silver, but me just saying so doesn’t make anyone else accept it as true. If you can’t back up your statements, you’re not actually adding anything of value to the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/76 "2005-12-28T21:53:03Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Gee, since my baby’s father is an illegal immigrant I wonder if she’d only be a half-citizen. I wonder which half they’ll count… Gee, since your baby’s father is an illegal immigrant, I wonder why he hasn’t been arrested and deported? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/77 "2005-12-28T21:56:48Z")
Just to be anal about it, Nurseweek has [this](http://www.nurseweek.com/features/99-5/hospital.html) to say about hospital closures: > [@](#): > > The California Healthcare Association reports an average of three closings a year over the past decade, most of them involving smaller, low-capacity hospitals squeezed by intense competition under managed care. Dozens of other hospitals have merged or changed ownership, moves that often result in some department closings as services are consolidated. > \ > California typically leads the nation in the number of hospital closings. A federal survey issued this year by the Office of the Inspector General reported 38 closures in 1997 out of 4,805 general acute care hospitals nationwide; California led with six, one of which was later relicensed. There are currently 478 licensed acute care hospitals in California, according to the California Department of Health Services (DHS). > > “Hospitals closed because of the interrelated factors of declining occupancy, lagging revenues, and rising costs,” according to the inspector general’s report. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/78 "2005-12-28T21:58:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I can post that illegal immigrants shit gold and piss liquid silver, _Rest of the post deleted_ I need to find myself some of these illegal immigrants. 😉😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/79 "2005-12-28T22:02:33Z")
> [@brujo](#): > > I need to find myself some of these illegal immigrants. 😉😛 It’s easy; they’re everywhere. Just ask my mother-in-law. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385/80 "2005-12-28T22:07:23Z")
**Sol’s** mom works border patrol? :eek: There’s a mental image… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oh-silly-of-course-they-didnt-mean-it-that-way/337385.md?page=5)